May 2007 - Installer-dev - lists.apple.com

Re: Installer Plugins - how to run as root?
by Peter Bierman 12 May '07

12 May '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com What's "Klingon UI input"? -pmb Thanks - Andy One last caveat -- _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… Please file radar bugs/enhancement requests for any changes you'd like. Be as specific as possible. At 5:24 PM -0700 5/11/07, Andy Kim wrote: Yup, our app doesn't require that the plugins execute (if I pulled the plugins out, the app would run fine, and we do have a second mechanism to download the additional "app library" from the app's preferences). With that in mind, I put anything that's *required* for our app in the scripts. The only real complaint I have with Apple's package format is that sometimes it's unavoidable that a runtime error may occur during the install process, and there's no easy/built-in way to get Klingon UI input to handle this case ("built-in" being more important since it could do installer specific error handling for non-UI installs) . On May 11, 2007, at 4:46 PM, Peter Bierman wrote: Make sure your software doesn't _require_ the plugins to install. There are several situations under which the installer is unable to load plugins. They're intended for optional use, with the presumption that any required actions can also be done in the app itself, if the app is installed via a mechanism that doesn't support the plugins. The command line installer is the simplest example, but there are many others. -pmb This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Installer Plugins - how to run as root?
by Andy Kim 12 May '07

12 May '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com Thanks - Andy One last caveat -- _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… Yup, our app doesn't require that the plugins execute (if I pulled the plugins out, the app would run fine, and we do have a second mechanism to download the additional "app library" from the app's preferences). With that in mind, I put anything that's *required* for our app in the scripts. The only real complaint I have with Apple's package format is that sometimes it's unavoidable that a runtime error may occur during the install process, and there's no easy/built-in way to get Klingon UI input to handle this case ("built-in" being more important since it could do installer specific error handling for non-UI installs) . On May 11, 2007, at 4:46 PM, Peter Bierman wrote: Make sure your software doesn't _require_ the plugins to install. There are several situations under which the installer is unable to load plugins. They're intended for optional use, with the presumption that any required actions can also be done in the app itself, if the app is installed via a mechanism that doesn't support the plugins. The command line installer is the simplest example, but there are many others. -pmb This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Installer Plugins - how to run as root?
by Peter Bierman 11 May '07

11 May '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com One last caveat -- The command line installer is the simplest example, but there are many others. -pmb _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… At 4:32 PM -0700 5/11/07, Andy Kim wrote: On May 11, 2007, at 2:43 PM, Bill Coderre wrote: There are many who believe that the installer should ask ALL of its questions BEFORE the user hits install. (cf. "About Face" by Cooper and Reimann. In the first edition, Cooper calls installers that ask users questions during install, "Klingon interrogation mode" among other choice epithets.) Those are very good points. I'll almost certainly be changing my DownloadPlugin to follow that behavior. But I'll probably have to leave the email entry as a post-install process since that's what my boss wants. Entering your email during an install is somewhat annoying and unfortunately from a business standpoint users are probably less likely to go through an install if they see an email in the beginning. I'd personally prefer that it be in the application somewhere instead, but that's out of my hands. Sad to say, but "Kingon interrogation mode" sort of works here (we do leave it optional though). On a side note, I probably learned some bad installation principles from being a former employee of InstallShield. j/k InstallShield is great. ;) Make sure your software doesn't _require_ the plugins to install. There are several situations under which the installer is unable to load plugins. They're intended for optional use, with the presumption that any required actions can also be done in the app itself, if the app is installed via a mechanism that doesn't support the plugins. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Installer Plugins - how to run as root?
by Andy Kim 11 May '07

11 May '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com On May 11, 2007, at 2:43 PM, Bill Coderre wrote: There are many who believe that the installer should ask ALL of its questions BEFORE the user hits install. (cf. "About Face" by Cooper and Reimann. In the first edition, Cooper calls installers that ask users questions during install, "Klingon interrogation mode" among other choice epithets.) Those are very good points. I'll almost certainly be changing my DownloadPlugin to follow that behavior. But I'll probably have to leave the email entry as a post-install process since that's what my boss wants. Entering your email during an install is somewhat annoying and unfortunately from a business standpoint users are probably less likely to go through an install if they see an email in the beginning. I'd personally prefer that it be in the application somewhere instead, but that's out of my hands. Sad to say, but "Kingon interrogation mode" sort of works here (we do leave it optional though). On a side note, I probably learned some bad installation principles from being a former employee of InstallShield. j/k InstallShield is great. ;) _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Installer Plugins - how to run as root?
by Bill Coderre 11 May '07

11 May '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… On May 11, 2007, at 12:14 PM, Andy Kim wrote: At the end of the install, I have a panel to enter some user data, and another panel to download a file into the application's bundle. I have this implemented as two Installer Plugins (EmailPlugin and DownloadPlugin). Using the excellent Iceberg tool, I placed the EmailPlugin and DownloadPlugin right after the Install panel (right before the Finish Up panel). I have "Root Authorization" required for the package. EmailPlugin creates a file in /Library/Application Data/<app>. DownloadPlugin creates a file in /Application/<app>.app There are many who believe that the installer should ask ALL of its questions BEFORE the user hits install. (cf. "About Face" by Cooper and Reimann. In the first edition, Cooper calls installers that ask users questions during install, "Klingon interrogation mode" among other choice epithets.) Assuming that you can just as easily ask for all the information before install as after, pose your plugins as part of the Welcome/ ReadMe/License sequence, write the info into Installer Temp, then have your scripts copy the information to the appropriate places in postflight scripts. Then the user can deal with everything before install starts, and if they find a question they don't understand, they can back out and email someone, as opposed to leaving their machine stuck in the installer while they frantically phone their sysadmin for help. (The "Principle of Least Surprise," another rule of thumb, suggests you don't let the user irrevocably commit to a task and then ask for information they might not have.) This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Installer Plugins - how to run as root?
by Andy Kim 11 May '07

11 May '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com Excellent, your solution should definitely work for me. Thanks! -Andy On May 11, 2007, at 1:29 PM, Peter Bierman wrote: Hi all, My question is as follow: _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… At 12:14 PM -0700 5/11/07, Andy Kim wrote: * How can I get the Installer Plugins to run as root? You can't. The Installer.app process does not run as root, ever, for very good security reasons. Installer plugins are UI plugins whose code runs inside the Installer.app process. You can, however, have your plugins communicate with your install scripts, which do run as root. Have your plugin get the installer's session temp directory, which I think is also passed to the scripts. You can drop a cookie file in there with the data you want to pass from the plugin to your script. -pmb This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Installer Plugins - how to run as root?
by Peter Bierman 11 May '07

11 May '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com Hi all, My question is as follow: -pmb _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… At 12:14 PM -0700 5/11/07, Andy Kim wrote: * How can I get the Installer Plugins to run as root? You can't. The Installer.app process does not run as root, ever, for very good security reasons. Installer plugins are UI plugins whose code runs inside the Installer.app process. You can, however, have your plugins communicate with your install scripts, which do run as root. Have your plugin get the installer's session temp directory, which I think is also passed to the scripts. You can drop a cookie file in there with the data you want to pass from the plugin to your script. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Installer Plugins - how to run as root?
by Andy Kim 11 May '07

11 May '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com Hi all, My question is as follow: * How can I get the Installer Plugins to run as root? Thanks! -Andy Targeting 10.4.x Universal _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… I've mostly finished creating an installer, but I'm running into the following problem, because I believe the Installer Plugin panels appear to run as non-root (non-admin in particular). My scenario is as follows: At the end of the install, I have a panel to enter some user data, and another panel to download a file into the application's bundle. I have this implemented as two Installer Plugins (EmailPlugin and DownloadPlugin). Using the excellent Iceberg tool, I placed the EmailPlugin and DownloadPlugin right after the Install panel (right before the Finish Up panel). I have "Root Authorization" required for the package. EmailPlugin creates a file in /Library/Application Data/<app>. DownloadPlugin creates a file in /Application/<app>.app If I run the installer as an admin user, everything works okay. If I run the installer as a non-admin user, both plugins fail because they cannot write their files (this occurs even though "Root Authoriization" is required). My understanding of what's happening is that the intaller scripts that run during the install phase (preflight, postflight, etc.) are running as root, but the Installer Plugins are not (which seems somewhat of a bug to me). In the worst case I'd have to discard using Installer Plugins and instead launch custom apps from the postflight script. I'd love to avoid that with the help of someone else's insight. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: How to disable package maker "locate" when a user picks an install location ?
by Stéphane Sudre 10 May '07

10 May '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com On jeudi, mai 10, 2007, at 12:41 AM, Paul Williams wrote: I am trying to setup a package maker installer to find an application and install an extension to the location where the application is installed. I can use "locator definitions" to find the application and that works fine, but if the user has installed two copies of the application on their computer, there is no way to let the user pick which application to install the extension to. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… IIRC, this is possible. The old Software Installation documentation (not the current one which is user centric vs developer centric) was dealing with the "user location" (or something close to that name). It works the same way as a locator but if it finds multiple locations, the user will be presented with a dialog to select which one to use. You can only define one "user location". I think you can find this documentation on a 10.3 system. I've never used it myself so I can't guarantee it works. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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How to disable package maker "locate" when a user picks an install location ?
by Paul Williams 09 May '07

09 May '07

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=p3N2biWoOdXFXjMoLeVFAviva0ttnjT+HHK0Xi06FfC84QZScMnLbIMGBXK7TqAb4OqdnFoJS+vTm4jYcV/fnxQ1jblhrp3KaLoK5q8Xk/RadjBSf86No/IuGlHm/yGL1mds3N3Zy/JiO2IzEvEVjK3ow4L3zPdJiyiRneiO7wE= Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=ojqcBj3DNh2gJHf6Po4qWAdkVnWVlduJLVAjsUof5CDbZa5oExAh4pzhQ/wr1HsBlE9gwVNDtQU7neGOQRaCFAkDr8ZGR5vQpa5CLWIWMGtnSDBMwyNWYTu7dulDXqAv69W0dslmKCc7t9GYbX+CzXPhfxN6pLuxH6AyCNfpNTE= I am trying to setup a package maker installer to find an application and install an extension to the location where the application is installed. I can use "locator definitions" to find the application and that works fine, but if the user has installed two copies of the application on their computer, there is no way to let the user pick which application to install the extension to. What I want is some way of tell package maker not to locate the application if the user changes the default location (Done by running the installer and under "select destination", using choose to pick a location to install.) Currently if a user changes the default location and package maker has "locator definitions" setup, it ignores the default location and install to where locator has found a copy of the application. Thanks Paul Williams _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Installer-dev mailing list (Installer-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/installer-dev/site_archiver%40lists.… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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