August 2011 - Pro-apps-dev - lists.apple.com

Re: Poor performance on software rendering generator
by Martin Baker 04 Aug '11

04 Aug '11

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=ZtK11x4oMaUYrlP3fRp1lRyF1WLZX1zx1WDEi6iBSdE=; b=YQzftyZNcy+FhVL5oasvQ1LztnE3dGfchqaDq1UdtWq2M8RO2PZDgcwxAN46AmklJC il5EeKHdv/Xgw8b4o4R22NlvuLTRxj6DCdBXIG1G9puZNLI6ussrE88l0v60V3vd+cgV 7fb8WqjMr1EZ94xkj0V34dbTA5KanASupE7fc= We're seeing that software rendering for a generator is extremely slow. All these are on a Motion 5 project at 1920x1080, 29.97fps, progressive at full res. ... So even before we add any custom code we're hampered by using software rendering, and this is just a simple generator with an output only not a filter with input/output. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Point controls, parameter groups, and templates (oh my!)
by Martin Baker 04 Aug '11

04 Aug '11

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Dkim-signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=sender:subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=f86Ask4Y5std2c5Bu5w63IPx7zjtFz5JPDkLmN+vNc4=; b=h+w00SppXz46+Ei2fogCrz/NFAAaiqePojxQZuplitBlUFlweiUxzQIVgfhzd3jQbk adyAv/EaJCsgPZiHikScBaVh7dOx8J7dpTJ8EP8MXv+7UTofZj6zYz40SN6RAN+VXpi4 7Yd+x1oRWxh9pENxux/ZCRbd6oNZF71F4vgTs= _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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so confused about image wells/drop zones for Final Cut Effect templates.
by Peter Litwinowicz 04 Aug '11

04 Aug '11

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Thread-topic: so confused about image wells/drop zones for Final Cut Effect templates. User-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.12.0.110505 _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Point controls, parameter groups, and templates (oh my!)
by Pierre Jasmin 04 Aug '11

04 Aug '11

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com Organization: RE:Vision Effects User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9.2.18) Gecko/20110616 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.11 3. on the whole template resolution issue, is the current recommendation to make templates at 1080P still the "right" one? Most of my effects are CPU based, and I don't like the idea of having the source footage always uprezzed to 1080P and processed at that size, if the source footage is only 720P or even wide DV. Adding multiple templates at different common resolutions is likely to confuse users. Having my effects take twice as long to render as they should is likely to annoy them. And then they'll rant that my effects are "slow", which annoys me. In case as you guys used to have some decent automatic QA internally for Shake at least... Add test for checking OSC location is equal to pixel value (requires a different movie) and this tests as well sub-sampling location Add test for matching param keyframe value and get frame at time value Add test for testing colorspace conversion roundtrips... Add sound effects for poor testers that checks all this for you in one test etc Pierre Darrin -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/jasmin%40revisionfx.com This email sent to jasmin(a)revisionfx.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… On 8/3/2011 3:25 PM, Darrin Cardani wrote: Thoughts? This is another area where we have some bugs filed, but more would help. I'll also see if there's anything I'm missing about this, as I don't know everything about the template system. A simple test procedure Apple could use in internal QA is something like make an uncompress movie (with 0.91 PAR) that is just alternate 1,0,1,0 for pixel values (ON/OFF) repeated at all frames... (you could maybe if this could be more then 8 bit do something that looks like a bit like a bayer mosaic ant set the alternatively R then G then B ON value to something not 1.0 to allow you to catch 8 bit in pixel path, and gamma or pixel order out of wack). make a plugin that reads a frame at another time (A), reads a frame from that movie copy using the clip well (B) , and reads the main input (C), plugin loops through pixels and does a diff of A to B (if pixel is different r=1,else 0), and B to C (if pixel is different g=1,else 0), and C to A (if pixel is different b=1,else 0). For more complete case replace last diff by a procedural one that redraws the mosaic and where ON level is equal to the float value level that is equivalent to the rounded value on either 0-1023 or 0-4095 levels scale used to make reference test pattern movie source. Make a template at 1080p square pixel with that fabulous effect load SD res movie and apply template in FCP-X... repeat software and hardware. If you don't get a constant black image, bug! This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Point controls, parameter groups, and templates (oh my!)
by Darrin Cardani 03 Aug '11

03 Aug '11

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Aug 3, 2011, at 3:14 PM, Paul Miller wrote: > 3. on the whole template resolution issue, is the current recommendation to make templates at 1080P still the "right" one? Most of my effects are CPU based, and I don't like the idea of having the source footage always uprezzed to 1080P and processed at that size, if the source footage is only 720P or even wide DV. Adding multiple templates at different common resolutions is likely to confuse users. Having my effects take twice as long to render as they should is likely to annoy them. And then they'll rant that my effects are "slow", which annoys me. > > Thoughts? So I did some more digging on this issue, and here's what I've been told: > In motion when creating any type of effect, transition, generator or title, the designer should create the appropriate snapshots for the intended use of the effect/title/transition/generator (here in referred to as effect). > > It's easy to do, in motion select the project object in the layers view > > > Then add the appropriate snapshot size per usage intent. 16:9 and 4:3 basically have you covered. > > There are a few caveats here. > > 1. Always create your snapshots first before any other step in effect creation > > 2. Snapshots currently do not support anything other than square pixels, so DV and PAL and HDV (anamorphic and non) media may show "pillaring" when the effect is applied. > > 3. This is a killer, which ever snapshot is selected in the inspector is the one you are modifying project wide. That is why it os important to create the snapshots first, design everything for 16:9, then switch to the 4:3 and adjust from there. So it sounds like there's supposed to be a solution, but that it has some issues with non-square pixels. But I'd be curious to know if making a 4:3 snapshot fixes the up-res/down-res issue? Darrin -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Point controls, parameter groups, and templates (oh my!)
by Paul Miller 03 Aug '11

03 Aug '11

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:5.0) Gecko/20110624 Thunderbird/5.0 On Aug 3, 2011, at 3:25 PM, Darrin Cardani wrote: On Aug 3, 2011, at 3:14 PM, Paul Miller wrote: After spending today getting a basic FxPlup up and running in the Motion/FCPX "environment" a couple of things jumped out: On 8/3/2011 5:33 PM, Darrin Cardani wrote: 1. there doesn't appear to be any way to edit point controls in FCPX interactively - all I see are type-in numbers and sliders. Is there a button or overlay I'm missing so I can just drag the point around? Yes, there is. Make sure your footage is selected in the timeline, and that your effect is selected (by clicking on its title) in the inspector. Then you should get a round handle in the canvas (assuming the value of the point parameter's x and y are between 0 and 1, and you're zoomed all the way out). Oh, I forgot to mention - you also need to check the "Publish OSC" checkbox. A point parameter is a type of OSC. Aha - that's it. I figured OSC was for custom OSCs, not "built-in" ones like point-controls. Makes sense from a certain point of view. But don't you think publishing a point control should also publish its on-screen representation automatically? Point controls without on-screen controls are rather annoying. _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Point controls, parameter groups, and templates (oh my!)
by Paul Miller 03 Aug '11

03 Aug '11

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:5.0) Gecko/20110624 Thunderbird/5.0 2. I can't publish groups to FCPX. This makes it kind of confusing if I have a slider called "Amount" in the "Blur" group - it only shows up as Amount. Amount for what? This is likely to confuse users. But I hesitate to rename the slider as "Blur Amount" though since the "Blur" is redundant back in Motion (and FCP 7), where it sits happily inside the Blur group. I realize having groups of parameters may also confuse users, but having overly verbose parameter names could annoy other users (and me). I remember back when earlier FCP versions didn't have groups and I had to prefix everything with the group names. But now FCP 7 (and Motion) support them and I'll have to add a bunch of messy code to make it work both ways. Oooo, nice to know - thanks Paul & Darrin! _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… Suggestions? No suggestions other than what you've mentioned above. I think others have filed bugs against this, but I suggest you do, too. I realize this isn't what you're asking for, but you can give the parameter a different name when you publish it. Double-click on the parameter name in the Projects "Published Parameters" tab in Motion. You can also drag-reorder the parameters in the Published tab, to give you more control over how the parameters appear in FCPX. This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Point controls, parameter groups, and templates (oh my!)
by Darrin Cardani 03 Aug '11

03 Aug '11

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Aug 3, 2011, at 3:25 PM, Darrin Cardani wrote: > On Aug 3, 2011, at 3:14 PM, Paul Miller wrote: > >> After spending today getting a basic FxPlup up and running in the Motion/FCPX "environment" a couple of things jumped out: >> >> 1. there doesn't appear to be any way to edit point controls in FCPX interactively - all I see are type-in numbers and sliders. Is there a button or overlay I'm missing so I can just drag the point around? > > Yes, there is. Make sure your footage is selected in the timeline, and that your effect is selected (by clicking on its title) in the inspector. Then you should get a round handle in the canvas (assuming the value of the point parameter's x and y are between 0 and 1, and you're zoomed all the way out). Oh, I forgot to mention - you also need to check the "Publish OSC" checkbox. A point parameter is a type of OSC. Darrin -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Point controls, parameter groups, and templates (oh my!)
by Paul Schneider 03 Aug '11

03 Aug '11

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com >> 2. I can't publish groups to FCPX. This makes it kind of confusing if I have a slider called "Amount" in the "Blur" group - it only shows up as Amount. Amount for what? This is likely to confuse users. But I hesitate to rename the slider as "Blur Amount" though since the "Blur" is redundant back in Motion (and FCP 7), where it sits happily inside the Blur group. I realize having groups of parameters may also confuse users, but having overly verbose parameter names could annoy other users (and me). I remember back when earlier FCP versions didn't have groups and I had to prefix everything with the group names. But now FCP 7 (and Motion) support them and I'll have to add a bunch of messy code to make it work both ways. >> >> Suggestions? > > No suggestions other than what you've mentioned above. I think others have filed bugs against this, but I suggest you do, too. I realize this isn't what you're asking for, but you can give the parameter a different name when you publish it. Double-click on the parameter name in the Projects "Published Parameters" tab in Motion. You can also drag-reorder the parameters in the Published tab, to give you more control over how the parameters appear in FCPX. On Aug 3, 2011, at 5:25 PM, Darrin Cardani wrote: > > On Aug 3, 2011, at 3:14 PM, Paul Miller wrote: > >> After spending today getting a basic FxPlup up and running in the Motion/FCPX "environment" a couple of things jumped out: >> >> 1. there doesn't appear to be any way to edit point controls in FCPX interactively - all I see are type-in numbers and sliders. Is there a button or overlay I'm missing so I can just drag the point around? > > Yes, there is. Make sure your footage is selected in the timeline, and that your effect is selected (by clicking on its title) in the inspector. Then you should get a round handle in the canvas (assuming the value of the point parameter's x and y are between 0 and 1, and you're zoomed all the way out). > >> 2. I can't publish groups to FCPX. This makes it kind of confusing if I have a slider called "Amount" in the "Blur" group - it only shows up as Amount. Amount for what? This is likely to confuse users. But I hesitate to rename the slider as "Blur Amount" though since the "Blur" is redundant back in Motion (and FCP 7), where it sits happily inside the Blur group. I realize having groups of parameters may also confuse users, but having overly verbose parameter names could annoy other users (and me). I remember back when earlier FCP versions didn't have groups and I had to prefix everything with the group names. But now FCP 7 (and Motion) support them and I'll have to add a bunch of messy code to make it work both ways. >> >> Suggestions? > > No suggestions other than what you've mentioned above. I think others have filed bugs against this, but I suggest you do, too. > >> 3. on the whole template resolution issue, is the current recommendation to make templates at 1080P still the "right" one? Most of my effects are CPU based, and I don't like the idea of having the source footage always uprezzed to 1080P and processed at that size, if the source footage is only 720P or even wide DV. Adding multiple templates at different common resolutions is likely to confuse users. Having my effects take twice as long to render as they should is likely to annoy them. And then they'll rant that my effects are "slow", which annoys me. >> >> Thoughts? > > This is another area where we have some bugs filed, but more would help. I'll also see if there's anything I'm missing about this, as I don't know everything about the template system. > > Darrin > -- > Darrin Cardani > dcardani(a)apple.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/pschneider%40apple.com > > This email sent to pschneider(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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Re: Point controls, parameter groups, and templates (oh my!)
by Darrin Cardani 03 Aug '11

03 Aug '11

site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com Delivered-To: pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com On Aug 3, 2011, at 3:14 PM, Paul Miller wrote: > After spending today getting a basic FxPlup up and running in the Motion/FCPX "environment" a couple of things jumped out: > > 1. there doesn't appear to be any way to edit point controls in FCPX interactively - all I see are type-in numbers and sliders. Is there a button or overlay I'm missing so I can just drag the point around? Yes, there is. Make sure your footage is selected in the timeline, and that your effect is selected (by clicking on its title) in the inspector. Then you should get a round handle in the canvas (assuming the value of the point parameter's x and y are between 0 and 1, and you're zoomed all the way out). > 2. I can't publish groups to FCPX. This makes it kind of confusing if I have a slider called "Amount" in the "Blur" group - it only shows up as Amount. Amount for what? This is likely to confuse users. But I hesitate to rename the slider as "Blur Amount" though since the "Blur" is redundant back in Motion (and FCP 7), where it sits happily inside the Blur group. I realize having groups of parameters may also confuse users, but having overly verbose parameter names could annoy other users (and me). I remember back when earlier FCP versions didn't have groups and I had to prefix everything with the group names. But now FCP 7 (and Motion) support them and I'll have to add a bunch of messy code to make it work both ways. > > Suggestions? No suggestions other than what you've mentioned above. I think others have filed bugs against this, but I suggest you do, too. > 3. on the whole template resolution issue, is the current recommendation to make templates at 1080P still the "right" one? Most of my effects are CPU based, and I don't like the idea of having the source footage always uprezzed to 1080P and processed at that size, if the source footage is only 720P or even wide DV. Adding multiple templates at different common resolutions is likely to confuse users. Having my effects take twice as long to render as they should is likely to annoy them. And then they'll rant that my effects are "slow", which annoys me. > > Thoughts? This is another area where we have some bugs filed, but more would help. I'll also see if there's anything I'm missing about this, as I don't know everything about the template system. Darrin -- Darrin Cardani dcardani(a)apple.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Pro-apps-dev mailing list (Pro-apps-dev(a)lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/pro-apps-dev/site_archiver%40lists.a… This email sent to site_archiver(a)lists.apple.com

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