List-mom time Re: [OFF] Localisation (was Re: Security Framework: authorization rights.)
List-mom time Re: [OFF] Localisation (was Re: Security Framework: authorization rights.)
- Subject: List-mom time Re: [OFF] Localisation (was Re: Security Framework: authorization rights.)
- From: Scott Anguish <email@hidden>
- Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 02:23:44 -0500
Time to slip on my list-mom dress again...
We're getting a bit far from the topic of cocoa-development here, and
clearly treading into a religious argument that is not going to get us
anywhere. The reality is that not everyone shares the same views
regarding regional localization that others do.
It is also not helpful to claim that filing bug reports and
enhancements will do nothing. That just isn't the case. Personal
attacks, name-calling or cursing is also not appropriate. We're
professionals here, and should treat each other as such. Following
this thread, it's also apparent that mmalc didn't resort to name
calling.
Scott
The List Has Two Mommies (but not using my apple.com address)
From: Wade Tregaskis <email@hidden>
Now, you can extend this further, although it becomes arguable.
Since Australian & UK English are largely the same, and since UK
English is by definition *the* English, you should probably put them
into "en" rather than waste space having two dialects which are for
the vast majority of cases identical. Any US specific strings can
then go into "en_US". So this way you conserve space, while
catering for all the major groups I can think of.
The default locale on Mac OS X is US English.
The default locale can indeed be US English if Apple want. It could
be ancient Hebrew, or Mandarin, or whatever else. It doesn't change
the fact that people are improperly classifying their localisations,
and that's creating problems. To exaggerate the problem, imagine if I
slipped in French words into "en" just because I were a French speaker
and I couldn't be bothered doing a full translation. It's obviously
wrong. I should only provide "fr", no "en", and leave it at that.
Mac OS X is not localised into other English "dialects".
That would be fine, except that it doesn't work that way. There is a
category "en_US"; thus even Apple are acknowledging that US English is
a particular dialect of "plain" English. So there's no reason for
people to not use "en_US" where they're presently [incorrectly] using
"en". As I've said, it's easy to forgive developers who just don't
realise, or newbies who aren't at this stage yet, but it's much harder
to forgive people who are doing the wrong thing when they do know
better. Or worse, trying to defend it.
If you want to see other locales supported, by all means file an
enhancement request.
If I had any faith that it would change anything, I might. So I
won't.*
End of discussion as far as this list is concerned.
I believe the discussion will end when it becomes truly off topic, a
flame war, or both sides run out of original points to put forward. I
presume you are of the latter. I too think I have presented all I
have to say. So far as I can tell, the argument boils down to a
series of rational & technical points about why the existing system is
wrong, and you [along with a few others] calling me names and
asserting that it's good enough for you. Funny about that, given
you're the one being favoured** by the problem.
Wade Tregaskis
-- Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
* = Actually, I've filled several bug reports about various apps in
past, many of them Apple's, but of course they've all been received by
arrogant US developers, who've dismissed them in various erroneous
ways.
** = That's the third time today I've told Mail to learn "favoured".
Yet every single time I relaunch it, it forgets. Perhaps Mail doesn't
in fact save changes permanently to the system dictionary - I must
check with some other random words.
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