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Re: core data app questions - help!
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Re: core data app questions - help!


  • Subject: Re: core data app questions - help!
  • From: mmalc crawford <email@hidden>
  • Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 09:00:07 -0700


On Sep 10, 2007, at 8:31 AM, Jacob Scheckman wrote:

Or in terms of differential equations, which you claim to be familiar with, it's like someone insisting on learning the Laplace transform before they've mastered addition, claiming that they don't really need to understand how to add two numbers to do Laplace transforms. I'm sure you can see both (a) how someone could argue this (since the Laplace transform is an algebraic rather than arithmetic operation), and (b) that they are mistaken.

It seems to me like a bit of an exaggeration that my questions were like asking how to translate the Iliad or to perform a Laplace transform, but maybe I'm very mistaken. It also seems a little bit much to continue the analogy to say that I don't even know how to add. Again, I could be wrong. If I am wrong I would've appreciated if someone early on had said that the things I was asking really WERE kind of complicated. Nobody really said that.


My first reply:

"I would strongly suggest reading <http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/CoreData/Articles/cdBeforeYouStart.html > then spending a week or two trying smaller projects focusing on learning the fundamental design patterns and techniques that pervade Cocoa (see in particular <http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/CocoaFundamentals/index.html >) before complicating matters with Core Data."

The first reference starts, "Core Data is not an entry-level technology. It leverages many other Cocoa technologies, including memory management, key-value coding, and key-value observing. You must understand these technologies to use Core Data effectively. You also need a solid understanding of data modeling and the model-view- controller design pattern as it pertains to Cocoa."

This I appreciate, and completely agree with (thank you for saying this in a respectful way). I'm sure that I'll re-implement the program several times with my approach - I already have. I'm also sure I'll be confused, but I'd rather fill in the gaps in my knowledge as I go than to spend a lot of time studying up front.

And again, this is typically not an efficient modus operandi.
You again seem to regard this ("time studying up front") as a "academic" exercise. It's not. As my first reply stated, you should "[spend] a week or two trying smaller projects" -- it's not a simple matter of reading, it's *doing*.



No kidding - but I.S.'s suggestions give me a place to start learning, rather than others which suggested just to start at the beginning.

The Cocoa Fundamentals Guide (<http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/CocoaFundamentals/index.html >) is a good place to start learning... (see also <http://developer.apple.com/referencelibrary/GettingStarted/GS_Cocoa/index.html >).


Again, I strongly encourage you to start with simpler examples and build on those. If you choose not to do this, I would also ask that you don't post questions to the list about the more complex technologies if you find them to be confusing -- it's simply not fair on the membership.

? Don't ask questions if you're confused? At what point is someone qualified to post on this forum? My suggestion to you would be that if a post is annoying to you just don't respond. Any forum that I've ever posted on before has been a place for someone with less knowledge to ask questions of people with more knowledge, and questions that people pose, even if they are elementary questions are met with respect and understanding. If my questions are too basic to be asked on this forum, I wholeheartedly apologize for wasting your time, and needless to say you won't hear from me again.


It's not an issue of questions being too basic -- I made clear that my request was confined to "questions about more complex technologies". You're asserting that you're going to wantonly ignore advice to start at a more appropriate level. If you get confused by the way Core Data behaves because you haven't taken the time to (as recommended here and in the documentation) adequately familiarise yourself with, say, memory management, key-value observing, or the model-view-controller design pattern, then it's not fair on the list to in effect ask others to dissect your questions to find the root cause of your problems and then back-fill the information you were recommended to learn in the first place.

mmalc




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References: 
 >Re: core data app questions - help! (From: Jacob Scheckman <email@hidden>)
 >Re: core data app questions - help! (From: mmalc crawford <email@hidden>)
 >Re: core data app questions - help! (From: Alastair Houghton <email@hidden>)
 >Re: core data app questions - help! (From: Jacob Scheckman <email@hidden>)

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