Re: Apple X11 Beta 3
Re: Apple X11 Beta 3
- Subject: Re: Apple X11 Beta 3
- From: Scott Thompson <email@hidden>
- Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 15:01:23 -0600
On Nov 8, 2003, at 10:52 AM, Jerry Callen wrote:
- The software in question is open source software. It's not at all
unusual in the
open source world for many, many back versions to be available.
No, it's not. The software in question is X11.app and the Quartz Window
Manager.
XFree86 and XDarwin ARE Open Source Software. You can download them if
you like and install them on Jaguar.
I don't think that X11.app and quartz-wm, on the other hand are Open
Source Software. If they are, of course, then you can download the
source and provide the effort needed to make them run properly on
Jaguar.
- There's no real COST associated with leaving the beta around for
10.2.8 users. It's
just disk space and download bandwidth. No one expects support.
There is a real COST. It is a legal liability for Apple to leave Beta
software up beyond it's beta period. Apple can limit that liability
through the use of a Beta Software licensing agreement, but that
liability is still a very real threat.
Besides, if nothing else, leaving up Beta software past it's release
would set unreasonable expectations on behalf of those involved with
other Apple Beta software programs.
- That "successful beta program" happened because of feedback from
real-world users.
It's worth something to Apple to maintain good relations with those
users, and
removing the beta cuts against that.
Those users are repaid for their contribution through the release of a
stable application. The users should not feel that relations are
strained because Apple removed beta software when the released software
became available. That's why it's called "beta software".
Apple's trying to have their cake and eat it, too. On the one hand,
they are selling
non-open-source software (Quartz), and they want developers to target
that proprietary environment.
On the other hand, they heavy promote the fact that OS X is UNIX and
"offers a unique
combination of technical elements to the discerning geek" (their
words, not mine), including
"a complete X11R6.6 implementation corresponding to XFree86 4.3, the
same open source
project used for X11 on Linux, BSD,and other UNIX-based systems."
In the marketing message that Apple has directed at traditional UNIX
users, they mention that their operating system is capable of running
X11R6.6 as a convenience for users who need that capability.
This ability is provided by Apple... starting with Panther.
For other customers, those not coming from a Unix background they also
provide alternate APIs for developing consumer and professional
applications. They're preference is that developers of those kinds
applications use Carbon or Cocoa because those APIs have distinct
advantages, for both developers and end users, when creating those
kinds of applications.
The two windowing environments are targeted at different classes of
users and different kinds of developers. That Mac OS X supports both
is a technical achievement to be lauded in story and song.
How that relates to the issue at hand, however, is beyond me. I 'm
afraid I do not see your point.
Why not suggest that they put in the effort to make the X11 software
work with Mac OS 9.2.2
or System 6 for that matter?
Oh, come now - that's an absurd suggestion, and no one has asked for
that.
It was absurd :-) It's an exaggeration to help make a point.
This is a normal software development cycle, not some manipulistic
plot to force people
to upgrade to Panther.
I'm sorry, but that's EXACTLY what it is. Of COURSE Apple wants people
to move to Panther.
They wouldn't have released it if they didn't want people to buy it
and use it, and there
are some compelling reasons for users to WANT to upgrade. The argument
being made here is
that the decision to upgrade should be driven by the needs of the
particular user, not
by Apple marketing decisions. That's all.
lol... :-)
To expand your sentence... The argument being made here is that the
decision to upgrade should be driven by [the need of the user for a
stable and complete X11 implementation that enhances the basic Open
Source experience by taking advantage of the Operating System to
provide enhanced performance and better integration with other
applications].
Apple has satisfied that need with Panther and X11.app.
How is that a plot?
OS X is a strange and wonderful hybrid of open source and proprietary
software,
and Apple's marketing really plays that up (see the quotes above). To
continue
to appeal to "the discerning geek", they will have to play by the
rules that
geeks expect, and that includes not pulling the rug (of older
versions) out from
under people.
Apple has not pulled any old versions of XFree86 out from under anyone.
They couldn't even if they wanted to. Jaguar has been able, and
continues to be able to run the Open Source versions of XFree86 and
XDarwin that are a credit to the Open Source community and the
individual contributors. In fact, Apple has participated by submitting
valuable bug fixes and enhancements to those projects which will
potentially benefit other platforms as well to Apple's detriment.
The discerning geek can be very happy with this situation.
At the same time, with the release of Panther Apple also provids
proprietary enhancements to that Open Source environment.
In order to ensure the quality of those enhancements, they provided a
public beta testing program and, at the end of that beta program when
the software was released, they removed the beta version of those
enhancements from general distribution.
How is that not satisfying the expectations of the "discerning geek"?
Surely the "discerning geek" understands the term "beta software".
Scott
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