Re: Apple Bug Reporter - was Re: XCode dependency handling
Re: Apple Bug Reporter - was Re: XCode dependency handling
- Subject: Re: Apple Bug Reporter - was Re: XCode dependency handling
- From: Laurence Harris <email@hidden>
- Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 13:41:10 -0500
On Feb 4, 2007, at 1:01 PM, John Daniel wrote:
Chris,
At the time, I had my Xcode project in a subdirectory. So, it
appears to have been a textbook case of the "known bug" you
mentioned in a previous message. My current projects are different
and that is probably why I haven't seen that problem lately.
I've never filed a bug report with Apple before. But I do have
extensive experience reporting and resolving such bug reports. I
have to tell you, I am somewhat disinclined to use the Apple Bug
Reporter.
Imagine what things would be like if everyone shared this view of
reporting bugs.
It appears that I can only view bugs that I originated. Given
Apple's high profile, I certainly understand the secrecy. Yet it
seems like a black hole of bugs. If I did file one, I would put
quite a bit of effort into it. (Trust me, I write very good problem
reports.) After all that work, the end result (in this case at
least) would have been "duplicate of bug #123456" (which I can't
access).
So, my options are:
File good, time consuming bug reports that will probably all be
dups (given that I'm not really an Xcode wizard).
File poor, thrown-together bug reports that will probably all be dups.
Save time for myself and Apple engineers by not filing bug reports
and just muddling through.
It sounds like you're saying you don't want to use the system because
it isn't perfect for what you want. You might want to consider
looking at this differently.
In my experience the purpose of filing bugs is to get them fixed so
others won't have to deal with them, not to address your needs. Sorry
if that sounds harsh, but given the length of time it can take for a
bug to get fixed I've found that in most cases you have to work
around it because it won't be fixed in time to help you. Sometimes
they'll suggest a workaround, sometimes they won't (or can't). Report
a bug when you encounter it. File enough information for Apple's
people to understand what it is, but don't go overboard. If they want
additional information, they'll ask you. If it's a duplicate, then
you haven't spent lots of time on it, but it's still worth reporting
because bugs reported by lots of people are more likely to get fixed
than bugs reported by one person or a few people.
And FWIW, file bugs as soon as you find them. The first person to
report a bug is the one they contact when a fix is available. The
longer you wait to file one, the more likely it is to be a duplicate.
As someone who likes to write bug reports, I would like an option
to review existing bug reports to see if my problem is a dup before
I file it. That option is not possible and, in the grand scheme of
things, I think that is correct. I'm not an Apple employee and I
shouldn't see them. I've been on the other side of the fence and I
am very much aware of what goes on.
So, my question to you is this: Had I filed a duplicate bug, would
that "duplicate of bug #123456" note have told me what the actual
problem (project file in a subdirectory) was? If so, I might file
some mediocre, average-quality duplicate bug reports in the future.
Given the current setup, I think my bug reports would just be
wasting Apple's time.
It's best not to make decisions for other people. Apple gets about a
thousand Radar entries a day, and I'm sure many of them turn out to
be useless. That's just part of the deal. If your neighbor's house
were on fire, would you not call 911 because someone else might have
already called them?
File a basic bug report when you encounter a bug. That gets the
process rolling. If they need more info, then you can knock yourself
out. If they don't, you haven't invested an excessive amount of time.
If it's a duplicate, filing it can only help to get it fixed faster.
If you need a workaround, you can write <email@hidden> to ask for
one and give them your bug number. They may or may not have one for
you, but in my experience they don't charge an incident if they
confirm that the problem is a bug at their end, and they'll be happy
to offer you one if the original bug has one. If it's a bug in one of
the tools, ask here. But I suspect people will be happier to spend
their time helping you if you're willing to spend time filing bugs to
help others. ;-)
But If I can get some benefit out of it (in the form of possible
workarounds) I will try to humor you.
I don't want to start any thread or discussion on this topic. I've
said enough already. I will try to be a good boy and try to write
some bug reports in the future. If I get a good response, I will
continue. If not, I shan't complain, but my Apple Bug Reporting
career will be short.
Would it really be such a waste of your time to do something that
might benefit someone else down the line just because you might not
get a benefit now? Imagine what Mac OS X would be like if everyone
had this attitude about reporting bugs.
Larry
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