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Re: A few beginner questions
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Re: A few beginner questions


  • Subject: Re: A few beginner questions
  • From: Peter Duniho <email@hidden>
  • Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 17:12:03 -0700

From: Scott Ribe <email@hidden>

Believe me, we all know what Hungarian notation is, and I don't think you'll
find anyone here who will say anything good about it.

Well, that's a mistake on your part. I will say something good about it.


Someone else has already pointed out the difference between what's commonly called "systems" and "apps" versions of Hungarian (the names refer to the original Microsoft business divisions that used the different styles). The "systems" is indeed pointless. But the "apps" style is not at all like what has been described in any of the posts here, and in my opinion has much value even in a modern IDE.

I'm not going to waste time extolling the virtues of Hungarian. It's not my goal to get other people to start using it. But all of the negative comments I've ever seen with respect to Hungarian, including all of the ones posted on this mailing list recently with respect to this thread, make incorrect assumptions about how Hungarian should be used and thus fail to provide any valid argument against it.

The short explanation is that when used properly, Hungarian notation describes the semantic use of a variable, not the type. There's no reason at all that changing the type of the variable would require changing the name, if Hungarian is applied correctly. It remains useful even in modern coding environments.

If someone doesn't want to use it, doesn't want to take the time to learn it, that's fine. But please don't bad-mouth it without actually understanding it (and yes, it's clear from the comments that the folks who are making negative comments about it haven't really used it or understand the proper use of it).

If anyone is curious, there are good articles related to the notation, many of the links can be found on the Wikipedia article referenced earlier:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_notation


Note that all of the negative quotes and comments with respect to Hungarian mistakenly focus only on the "systems" variant.

Here is a reasonably complete, if a bit out-dated, description of a particular set of Hungarian notation. Specifically, it's the convention that the Microsoft Applications division follows (i.e "apps" Hungarian):
http://www.byteshift.de/msg/hungarian-notation-doug-klunder


Keep in mind that the notation is simply a guide. It's perfectly reasonable and desirable to invent new tags that better describe the semantics of types or usages unique to your own code. Of course, one should use the conventional tags for things that fit into those conventions.

It's unfortunate that this instructor is teaching a completely broken variant of Hungarian. It's this sort of thing that leads to people dismissing Hungarian as pointless or unworkable without really understanding it (and to be sure, it is neither pointless nor unworkable).

Pete
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