RE: Hidden Cocoa apps have empty kAXWindowsAttribute
RE: Hidden Cocoa apps have empty kAXWindowsAttribute
- Subject: RE: Hidden Cocoa apps have empty kAXWindowsAttribute
- From: "Pietrzak, Bryan" <email@hidden>
- Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 14:57:01 -0700
A user doesn't care about implementation details of how the system works.
All they care about is the fact that for some applications they can't access
some of the windows sometimes. It's not consistent.
If there's a window, hidden or not, app hidden or not, the user probably
knows it's there and has the expecation it's available. It shouldn't matter
whether the app is cocoa or carbon. To restrict the accessibility APIs like
this makes no sense to me _AS A USER_. As a developer, I have no problem
understanding the idea that resources may be dynamically destroyed for some
windows when the app is hidden and I can appreciate that design.
But I do think things need to be consistent: either change Carbon or change
Cocoa. I think you need to change Cocoa in this respect to support user
expectations as opposed to limiting the user.
Bryan
-----Original Message-----
From: John Louch [
mailto:email@hidden]
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2003 3:10 PM
To: Jirome Foucher; Mike Engber
Cc: accessibility-dev
Subject: Re: Hidden Cocoa apps have empty kAXWindowsAttribute
>
On mardi, mars 11, 2003, at 20:52 Europe/Paris, Mike Engber wrote:
>
>
> On Tuesday, March 11, 2003, at 11:33 AM, Jirome Foucher wrote:
>
>> On mardi, mars 11, 2003, at 17:25 Europe/Paris, Mike Engber wrote:
>
>>
>
>>>> Actually, it turns out that kAXWindowsAttribute still returns any
>
>>>> minimized windows in the hidden Cocoa app, just not the
>
>>>> unminimized ones !
>
>>>
>
>>> The minimized ones _are_ visible to users, that's why they're
>
>>> returned
>
>>
>
>> Sorry, but when I hide an app, the minimized windows that belong to
>
>> this app are removed from the Dock..... So am I missing anything ?
>
>
>
> Sorry, I misread your post. If the app is hidden you shouldn't get
>
> any windows from Cocoa, minimized or not.
>
>
>
For hidden Cocoa apps :
>
- minimized windows are listed
>
- other windows are not listed
>
>
For hidden Carbon apps :
>
- ALL windows are listed
>
>
>
I personnaly think Carbon apps have this right.
>
There's NO real difference between a hidden application and an
>
application whose windows are covered by the front app's ones, no
>
matter if you're blind or not.
And we are telling you that there is a difference. If a window is truly
hidden then our system can be smart and destroy resources for this window.
If it is just obscured then we cannot do this. This is an implementation
detail, but it allows us to save resources throughout the system.
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