Re: Accessibility-dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 9
Re: Accessibility-dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 9
- Subject: Re: Accessibility-dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 9
- From: Spencer Rudnick via Accessibility-dev <email@hidden>
- Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2023 11:41:00 +0000
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- Thread-topic: Accessibility-dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 9
In terms of guidance from Apple on macOS, reading the AppKit.framework’s
NSAccessibilityProtocols.h header has been helpful, specifically the sections
marked with “Table,” “Table cell,” “Table/Outline,” and “Tables, Lists,
Outlines”. Unfortunately, that doesn’t help with anything based on UiKit.
In terms of working examples, I found Finder’s list view to be a versatile
example of a Table/Outline. The Grid in the Numbers spreadsheet application
also works nicely as an example.
Cheers,
Spence (they/them)
Ableton AG
Schoenhauser Allee 6-7
10119 Berlin, Germany
Management Board/Vorstand: Gerhard Behles, Jan Bohl
Chair of the Supervisory Board/Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats: Uwe Struck
Registered Office/Sitz: Berlin, Amtsgericht Berlin-Charlottenburg, HRB 72838
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Date: Wednesday, 22. March 2023 at 20:00
To: email@hidden <email@hidden>
Subject: Accessibility-dev Digest, Vol 20, Issue 9
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Tables with SwiftUI (Drake, Ted)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2023 18:31:56 +0000
From: "Drake, Ted" <email@hidden>
To: "email@hidden" <email@hidden>,
"email@hidden"
<email@hidden>
Subject: Re: Tables with SwiftUI
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Kelly brings up a great topic. I?ve also wanted to learn more about table usage
in iOS and MacOS. It seems like using a webview of an HTML table has been the
only solution.
This used to be problematic when TalkBack wouldn?t work with HTML tables on
Android. But that is working now.
Does Apple have deeper guidance on tables?
Ted Drake |? Accessibility and Inclusive Design Leader, Intuit Design System
Cell Phone:?(650) 245-4825
Pronouns: He/Him/His |?https://www.last-child.com/working-style-for-ted-drake/
Email:??mailto:email@hidden
Intuit products are more than web, desktop, and mobile applications. We build
the products that enable people to live independent lives. They manage their
finances, start businesses, hire employees, and develop their careers. Our goal
within the Intuit Accessibility team is to ensure our products reach everyone,
regardless of their physical, sensory, or cognitive ability.
Intuit?|?Powering Prosperity tm
From: kelly--- via Accessibility-dev <email@hidden>
Reply-To: "email@hidden" <email@hidden>
Date: Friday, March 17, 2023 at 11:08 PM
To: "email@hidden" <email@hidden>
Subject: Tables with SwiftUI
Hello,
As I?m sure most here know, tables are one of the more power UI experiences to
navigate complex data with a screen reader.? The area of particular interest to
me is financial data, account transaction and investment portfolio views in
particular.
Over the years I?ve had varying levels of discussions with multiple companies
from the banking and investment worlds about this topic.? Most easily create
robust tables for the web using HTML.? These tables support all the table
navigation available to different screen readers including items such as
VoiceOver?s rotor.
I?ve yet to find an example of one of these apps supporting an actual table in
their native iOS or Mac apps though. Most end up with one of two experiences:
1. All of the tabular data combined into a single object per row. You?ll get
either all the data with a separator such as a comma, or the data plus the
column titles before each piece of data.
2. It seems that when developers try to improve on this, they end up creating
some experience that basically ends up putting each cell as a separate object
for VoiceOver but the overall structure is not a table. This means table
commands and row navigation do not work.? This is most often some custom
creation because developers have tried to make something that seems more like a
table and will add custom info on each of these simulated cells.
I have tried at least 10 financial apps here from most of the leading industry
players and they all seem to have this situation.? My own development
experience for Mac and iOS is limited as I?ve worked most of the time in HTML
or different Microsoft/Windows technologies. I?m trying to improve my knowledge
and have more productive conversations when I end up talking with these
companies through different feedback opportunities.? I?ve had the most success
when I can provide details on the desired end user experience and point to as
much documentation and working examples developers can use to learn.
While I improve my own knowledge, I was curious what others can share here.
When I look at SwiftUI documentation on tables, I find this.
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/SwiftUI/Table
This appears to be relatively new as far as OS support.
If a developer follows this documentation, will it create a table that is
reported properly as a table with VoiceOver and works with table commands, such
as rows with the rotor in VoiceOver?? Are there examples of working tables in
Apple or 3rd party iOS and Mac apps that are not done in HTML? Does Apple have
any further documentation, code samples, learning materials or other resources
that can be shared with developers trying to improve their experiences here?
The few financial apps where I have seen tables that work with VoiceOver from
my own research are hosting some sort of web experience inside their apps.
Thank you for any additional information here.
Kelly
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