Re: Search Archives! Help Full
Re: Search Archives! Help Full
- Subject: Re: Search Archives! Help Full
- From: vectormation <email@hidden>
- Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 14:37:20 -0500
Here's a thought...
If the Apple archive were more useful, all this work to figure out how to
limit exposure via 3rd party archives would be moot, since there wouldn't
be as great a need for 3rd party archives... not that they shouldn't be
allowed, but you could say that any archive that doesn't have explicit
permission is illegal. Then you can take your time to formulate the
policy, while being able to quickly shut down gross offenders.
~Phi
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On 11/1/01 10:03 AM, "Hellum Timothy" <email@hidden> wrote:
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> Ummm. Isn't it illegal to capture and post email from Apple archives?
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Not necessarily. We try to be accomodating to people who want to set up
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external archives when we can, and we've tried to avoid formal thou-shall's
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and thou-shall-nots so we have the flexibilty to support interesting Good
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Stuff.
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There are certain things we require if someone wants to set up a public
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archive. One of the things I've discussed internally with people is whether
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we can continue with this informal, "do the right thing" approach, and it's
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becoming more clear that we can't (FWIW, Kevin's stuff has nothing to do
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with this, I'd decided that about a week ago).
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So, I am going to, I guess, have to set up a formal policy on archive access
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and publishing, and then anyone doing a public archive of some sort is going
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to have to either agree to abide by it or we'll have to ask them to close it
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off. Most folks are mostly reasonable -- we just keep having issues with
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people who don't stop to think about what putting everyone's email addresses
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up on a web site means. As I said earlier, security by obscurity doesn't
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work -- even if you don't publish the URL, if you post it to this list, all
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it takes is someone on this list forwarding it to another list that doesn't
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bother to protect ITS archives, and it's only a matter of time before the
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spambots find you.
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We are quite serious about protecting email addresses here, but it's
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meaningless if we do it and others simply grab the data and expose it behind
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our back. We are, in fact, working on a project to evaluate and upgrade our
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archive security over the next few months, before the spambots get smart
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enough to figure out what we're doing.
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We ARE going to move to an explicit policy of "you cannot have a publically
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accessible archive of our mailing lists without explicit permission from
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Apple" -- but at the same time we do that, I want to set up a policy that is
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reasonable, fair, and not overly paranoid, anal or obnoxious. We just can't
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keep policing things with a "if we find out about you, and you don't meek
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our standards, we have to talk" -- that just isn't working on any number of
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levels, starting with the reality that if we don't publish "our standards",
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how do you know whether you meet them?
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So no, it's not illegal, but you don't have carte blanche to do what you
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want, either. I need to work out a reasonable trade-off here between
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allowing the openness for innovation and alternative access I want with the
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security for our users we have to have, and a way to police and administer
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that is not noxious but still enforceable. It's something I plan on trying
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to pull together while on vacation, when I have time to sit and think it
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over.
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Chuq
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--
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Chuq Von Rospach, lists.apple.com Lead Administrator
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email@hidden
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