AS verbosity and ease(?) of learning [was Re: AsciiNumber & AsciiCharacter Handlers]
AS verbosity and ease(?) of learning [was Re: AsciiNumber & AsciiCharacter Handlers]
- Subject: AS verbosity and ease(?) of learning [was Re: AsciiNumber & AsciiCharacter Handlers]
- From: has <email@hidden>
- Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 20:03:26 +0100
[Hey, can you tell I've split this post up to stop myself looking such an
obvious windbag yet?;]
Arthur also wrote:
>
The tendency of AS to be "verbose" can be a wonderful thing for a
>
beginning scripter, but it can also become a nightmare for someone trying
>
to "master" the language.
I think the problem isn't so much AS's verbosity as its habit of doing the
same types of things in several different ways - the most obvious, of
course, being function calls. An osax call is functionally the same as a
call to a local handler, but syntactically different. This results in an
artificially complex mental model being created in the learning mind - I
can still remember finally making the connection myself: this whole wall
just fell down before my eyes and suddenly AS became that much easier to
comprehend.
This sort of thing happens over and over again: e.g. object models are
another kicker that turn out to be relatively simple once you get past the
pretty syntax to the actual foundations that nobody bothers to tell you
about otherwise.
I suspect the most valid cross against AS' verbosity is that,
line-for-line, you're likely to develop RSI that bit sooner than a C
programmer.
>
I tend to "rate" the AppleScript learning curve in this way:
>
>
A user's difficulty in moving from being a...
>
>
- Newbie to a Novice, (how do I open a folder?) --> A++
>
- Novice to Intermediate, (munge the folder's name) --> C-
>
- Intermediate to Mastery, (efficiently munge the name) --> D-
>
- Mastery to Advanced, (objects, math, data structures) --> F
I think this may have more to do with "But nobody told me how to do any of
this fricking stuff!" than it does with language syntax. There's plenty of
AS-specific books telling you how to open folders, but not one - as far as
I know - that introduces algorithms, OOP, etc.
The other thing about the novice "opening folders" thing - and I think this
is important - is that [I believe] this is generally learned through
mimicry and trial-and-error. It's not [I don't think] done by sitting down
and learning about object models, object properties and methods, and how to
target and manipulate them. In essence, those novices are sitting around
expertly pushing a handful of buttons without any real deep understanding
of what they're actually doing. Shift the conditions of the problem just a
little from what they're used to, and see how well they get on then.
Nevertheless, when all one wants to do is rename a few folders and shift
them about, this kind of
going-through-the-motions-without-any-real-understanding is often good
enough.
Beyond that point, you just have to wait for the slapping forehead sound
when they finally "get" the underlying concept, and realise that those
dozen different procedures they learned are all basically the same thing,
and that these fundamental principles appears over and over again - not
just in the Finder, but in any application that uses an object model to
manipulate data. Watch the learning curve accelerate then.
So I think the real problem re. learning AS is its friendly and
well-meaning obfuscation of similar constructs, and the reluctance of
anyone around AS to discuss what are often complex and sophisticated
concepts (such as object models) with the newbies in case it scares and
confuses them. Which might seem like a kindness, but in the end it's just
making life harder for them when they have to go figure all this stuff out
for themselves.
However, I think I'm rapidly shifting into yet another topic area again, so
I'm going to cut and run right now else I'll be here all night.
>
OK, I've probably angered a lot of people now, so I'll just conclude
>
by saying, "please don't flame me".
Not at all, lad. However, you must realise that this is one of those pet
topics I find terribly interesting in a Pub Bore sort of fashion, and will
happily expound on till the cows come home. If there's a gentle snoring
sound coming from the List, it'll be my fault - though any burnt hair smell
is most definitely yours.;)
Cheers
has
--
http://www.barple.connectfree.co.uk/ -- The Little Page of Beta AppleScripts
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