>>>For complete beginners, yes, an interactive command builder would be useful.
Wow, I still find it useful when I script in OS 9, I must be still be a complete beginner after scripting for 20 years. >>> For anyone with a modicum of programming skills a GUI- based command builder provides no practical benefits (and is slower than straight keyboard input), since things like interactive dictionary browsers and command builders don't provide you with any additional information beyond what is supplied by the application's dictionary.
Wrong on all counts. (slower? as wordy as applescript is, clicking and pointing is slower than typing?) The reality is that not all applications have well written dictionaries and not all application dictionaries are consistent. Scripters' command builder nearly always built working commands and when it didn't, it was clear how to tweak the output to make it work. All the guess work people have been complaining about in today's threads, were eliminated using command builder. It was a very sophisticated tool. Deceptively simple to use at first, and very powerful once mastered. Pity it's not available in OS X.
>>> Interactive dictionary and object model browsers are more generally useful, since they make it quicker and easier to look up specific information as you work - something that both novice and experienced users make good use of. Script Debugger has very nice GUI-based dictionary browsing and object introspection tools
As did Scripter, integrated with the command builder. I use Script Debugger's Explorer and Object Model browser all the time. Still miss the command builder.
>>>>Script Debugger is in many respects complete overkill for novice and lightweight AppleScript users, and its relative complexity would probably scare away many newcomers who are tempted to AppleScript by its perceived 'simplicity'.
Again, wrong on all counts. Script Debugger has many advanced features that go way beyond what most novice AppleScripters would ever need, but they pretty much stay out of the way until you go looking for them. As soon as an AppleScripter realizes that it would help to be able to see the value of a variable in the middle of executing a script, then they are ready for Script Debugger. In my experience that happens after a few hours.
>>> To be honest, I've a lot more confidence in third-parties like LNS to provide quality solutions that cater specifically to the novice and/or professional markets than I do in Apple.
Just for clarity's sake we should make a distinction between third-party software for script writing, third-party software for deployment (OSAX, etc.) and third-party applications that are being scripted.
And I agree that a developer like LNS may be in a better position to provide advanced tools for scripters.
But Apple should provide better basic functions in the language. We shouldn't have to rely on third party developers for basic file, network, text and data operations.
>>> for LNS, AppleScript tools are its core business - and having one's paychecks being 100% directly dependent on delivering top-quality product can really help focus the mind.
That's right, and one reason why I don't think Apple should provide an enhanced debugger is it would drive LNS out of business and Mark makes a huge contribution to AppleScript.
>>>Every application API is different. It's unrealistic to expect knowledge of one third-party API to be directly transferable to another third-party API.
I don't think that's the case at all with AppleScript. I think the more applications you script, the easier it is to master scripting new applications.
That's one of the beauties of appleScript. That's one of the reasons we have appleScript. One language, many apps. The knowledge I gained by scripting Quark directly transferred to scripting InDesign. Same with with countless other apps.
>>>T he problem is getting up to speed on new APIs when they are almost invariably grossly under-documented.
Of course, that's exactly where Scripter's command builder helped so much.
>>>Non-technical users are blessed with the unawareness that they are being sold short.
Is it possible to be any more condescending? Does that really help?
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