Re: Libraries and effiency
Re: Libraries and effiency
- Subject: Re: Libraries and effiency
- From: Tommy Bollman <email@hidden>
- Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:06:30 +0200
Hello Philip.
I'm trying to do what you want providing powerful scripts that works within the UI of all 3 editors, maybe I will include Xcode and .applescript files, since I recently have seen that they use libraries with ASOC too.
Those scripts are meant to ease the daily work of a scripter, providing access to libraries, by revealing in finder, opening files, creating load statements and listing of handlers, pasting of signatures, pasting of handlers, and at a later stage, I will implement a version control system onto it all, with a snapshot facility primitive but still. There are other small utilities as well, as locking of files and such, which are to come. Most of the scripts will rely on a server which others have access to, hopefully useable from ASOC, for somebody wanting to provide (palettes of floating windows, etc.) I hope for a unified documenting system, like Tetsuro KURITAS to become a standard, and that we all could have one common repository, with at least a small but powerful library of common routines.
On 11 Aug 2010, at 15:37, Philip Aker wrote:
> On 2010-08-10, at 19:19:46, Shane Stanley wrote:
>
>> On 11/8/10 11:35 AM, "Tetsuro KURITA" <email@hidden> wrote:
>
>>> Also it looks that the programing using libraries is not common in AppleScripters.
>>>
>
>>> This is the problem we must tackle.
>
>> I don't know that it's a problem to tackle, or whether it's a reason to ask if all the effort is worthwhile.
>
>> Perhaps a good starting point would be to ask why people don't use libraries, and then see if the issues raised can be answered.
>
>> So far, the assumption seems to be that they are unused because of things to do with where they live, how they get loaded, naming, and so on. I suspect the reasons are quite different, and that extensive libraries don't offer any great advantages to a lot of scripters. In the era of AppleScriptObjC, perhaps even more so.
>
>> Whatever the reasons, tackling them would be a lot easier if they were identified.
>
>
> Yes and most reasonable to address raison d'être questions (pardon my French). Here are some things I've considered.
>
> • No 'get handlers and properties from …' command at the scripting level.
> • No convenient built-in commands for library management.
> • AppleScript Editor doesn't have an "Insert 'load script …'" menu item as a user convenience.
>
> • Libraries are not too popular because they don't have much formalized support from the system.
>
> Try to address that by designing something that can be accessed easily from all levels of scripting and coding available. Make it a "general" concept so folks with a different take on things can perceive a usage value.
>
>
> • Apple seems to think that Automator is the solution for the library concept.
>
> This list has about 100 times the activity of Automator's because there's a feeling of grass roots involvement. I'm candid with my remarks but not disrespectful — Automator is really powerful with extensive libraries — and certainly the work of an experienced developer — but it's interface is like a straight-jacket. That's what happens when your rely on the Cocoa frameworks to do your designing for you.
>
> So, instead of an imposed interface, start with a design which has no interface and let folks add their own. After a while, a bubble effect happens and preference of the collective becomes apparent.
>
> Try to get some consensus from those even mildly interested as to a lowest common denominator. Wish lists are welcome because sometimes a casual remark can trigger a fundamental design change which then permits more flexibility.
>
> A small but exacting "kernel design" concept with very few restrictions. Something folks can realize is easily extensible for their purposes — with or without a UI.
>
>
> Philip Aker
> echo email@hidden@nl | tr a-z@. p-za-o.@
>
> Democracy: Two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch.
>
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Best regards
Tommy Bollman
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mollison's Bureaucracy Hypothesis:
If an idea can survive a bureaucratic review
and be implemented it wasn't worth doing.
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