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[rant] "Never mind the quality, feel the width!"
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[rant] "Never mind the quality, feel the width!"


  • Subject: [rant] "Never mind the quality, feel the width!"
  • From: has <email@hidden>
  • Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 18:14:33 +0000

Bill Cheeseman unfortunately wrote:

> I also want to comment on Shane's concern about AppleScript's future. I've been hearing the same fears of doom ever since 1993.

Probably because AppleScript's been struggling to survive since almost the day it was born. It's had its positive moments - Cal Simone's righteous army of print automators saving it being Jobsed in the late 90s, and the early OS X years when it seemed to find fresh life - but for pretty much the last decade it's slowly slid into the weeds. Anyone who doesn't accept it's well into the long tail section of its life cycle is just fooling themselves.


> Basically, AppleScript has survived all these years because it fills a need for many of us (including the lurkers on the list who never pipe up).

AppleScript survived its first decade because it made itself indispensable to the print industry - who in turn were a critical core market that Apple could not afford to lose at a time when other customers were abandoning Mac in droves. Print is no longer a core Apple market, however, so if the knives were to come out now it's unlikely they'd save its skin again. Don't delude yourself: all your personal love and devotion doesn't do shit to keep AppleScript alive. The only thing that matters to Apple is what brings the cold hard filthy lucre; and AppleScript is a drop in an ocean these days.


> Also because of the devotion of many advocates both in and outside of Apple.

Oh, this is golden. Who are these devoted advocates of which you speak, and what have they done recently to evangelize, educate, and empower the great unwashed filthy masses of non-believers? Because, far as I can tell, Shane's pretty much the only one still wearing the shoe leather these days. Please, give us names and achievements, not vacuous platitudes, and you might the makings of an actual arguments. I am all ears.


> It seems to me now, as it has for a very long time, that it is so deeply ingrained in the system and in important groups of users that Apple can't afford to drop it.

Well, you're half right: at this point the inertia is such that it'd be more hassle for Apple to proactively ax AppleScript than just leave it to putter on by itself. That doesn't mean that if the AppleScript language - or, more significantly, the underlying Apple events system - becomes a liability, or just an excessive waste of resources, that they won't put the boot in. If Apple can win 50,000 new paying customers by burning a couple thousand existing once, don't think that they won't. Methinks you should check your calendar: this is 2014, not 2004.


[caution: nuclear response deploys ahead]

> Just look at the broad and deep improvements that Apple has added to AppleScript in version after version, including Yosemite.

This is absolutely the dumbest thing I have read all year. The ONLY thing that matters is putting bums on seats: developers creating scriptable applications, users scripting them. Apple in general and the AppleScript team in particular have failed miserably at this. As Shane says, the AppleScript community hasn't seen fresh blood in years, and the situation outside of that is beyond dire.

There are two reasons for this. First, the AppleScript team's development work is largely shit. I can think of only two development in the last decade that weren't cocked up: the AppleScript 2.0 upgrade in 10.5 (which was merely underwhelming) and AppleScript-ObjC in 10.6, which was actually a half-decent bit of engineering - just a shame then they forgot to provide any documentation worth a damn. The rest is the product of bored corporate programmers playing around for their own amusement, failing miserably to solve users' actual problems.

Examples:

1. Scripting Bridge? Killed application scripting uptake amongst Python, Ruby, ObjC, etc users. Appscript managed to attract maybe 1000 non-AppleScripters to application scripting; SB should've taken that audience and multiplied it several-fold, converting many app developers not into providers but enthusiastic *consumers* as well. Real result: the number of non-AppleScripters doing application scripting has actually dropped. FAIL.

2. AppleScript libraries? So-so implementation; but that hardly matters anyway since it's got zero effective adoption anyway. And why should they: its *own authors* don't even care enough to use it themselves. Seriously, twenty years on, and AppleScripters still can't do a simple find-and-replace or list sort without having to scrabble around for copy-paste code or roll their own. You'd think at the very least the AS team would bother to test its fitness for purpose and show its value to users by... I dunno, building a basic set of libraries to include in the OS as standard? As for developing an online library repository so users can distribute libraries to each other? Library installation and management tools? Tutorials? User training and support? You must be kidding. Look at any other popular scripting language: look at the library ecosystems and supporting technologies they've got in place. Look at the huge multiplier effect that comes from having a huge amount of general-purpose and task-specific functionality available for free at the drop of a hat. Hell, even desktop latecomer _javascript_'s trying to get its act together with CommonJS. FAIL x2.


3. Oh, _javascript_. If you'd asked me a year ago, I'd have told you AppleScript'd be wrapping up in the next 5 to 10 years: not necessarily killed by Apple, just slowly starved to death until there was nobody left to care. It'd only be a matter of time before XPC Services closed the loop and provided full peer-to-peer IPC, pushing Apple events to the legacy pile and on its way to obsolescence. When WWDC13 announced a brand new Objective-C API for OS X's venerable _javascript_Core framework, the writing was on the wall: it was obvious this new API was designed to allow application developers to embed JS directly into their apps, allowing user scripts to talk directly to their existing ObjC APIs virtually for free. No more jumping through bizarro Cocoa Scripting hoops just to please a handful of AppleScripters and their weirdo language; at last, a language programmers understood (if not liked) and a potential customer base of millions.

What happened? I have no idea - if I had to guess I'd say a spot of turf warfare between a couple middle managers over whose empire should own desktop _javascript_ saw it crash-land in the midst of the AS team. All I know is that when _javascript_ for Automation was announced at WWDC14, it suddenly threw everything back in the air. Needless to say, I threw myself into the seeds in the hopes I could help make it a success - and needn't have bothered: as soon as I started raising serious issues, all I got was smoke up my ass, blown by Sal himself. Gahh.

And now JXA's out, and a few plucky _javascript_ fans are trying to use it, what's happening? They're struggling to understand how it's meant to work, tripping on its myriad defects, and starting to realize that Apple's thrown it on the floor and left it there. I've not seen a single member of Sal's team stick their head above ground once in the last six weeks. Are they dead? Are they scared of criticism? Have they already seen - ooh a shiny new toy! - and wandered off in pursuit of that, leaving JXA abandoned to fend for itself? Who knows. Incredibly, *I'm* out there trying to answer hapless JXA users' problems for them. And I *know* what a sack of knackers is, so you'd better believe I pull no punches when flagging its faults. Even so, when early adopters start responding like this:

    "I do rather get the feeling that Apple has announced JXA and then forgotten about it!  Despite your helpful suggestions I think I'll just forget about it too."

or this:

    " This does render the environment unusable for anything beyond the fairly trivial sample snippets that Apple provides."

or even see their questions go completely unanswered for weeks at a time, it's clear folks are realizing for themselves they've been promised the pig and sold the pup. First impressions are everything, and the AppleScript team's *zero support* of their *own damn product* says everything. And I'll be happy to amplify this message, as at this point I believe the only way JXA could be saved is to break it out of the Automation team's grasp and handed to a completely different team within Apple, one with a modicum of technical competence and which actually gives a crap for its own consumers.


Look at Apple's new Swift for comparison: another half-baked product off to a wildly rocky start. But its authors are out there, helping their users, seeking their feedback, taking their licks like professionals, building their community, repairing user confidence where damage occurs, and generally working their asses off to make their baby a huge success over the long run. They put the AppleScript team to absolute shame.

As a fifteen year AppleScript user, developer, evangelist, and supporter myself, I am sick of seeing Sal &co. running the entire AppleScript stack and all its fantastic potential for empowering us users firmly into the dirt. Don't blame Apple, don't blame app devs, don't blame users; they don't give enough of a crap either way to make a difference. This is a problem fundamentally with the current AppleScript team and their piss-poor curation of our beloved tech. But I've done my bit and paid my dues, so if some high muckity-muck at Apple looks a year from now and sees JXA crashing and burning in embarrassing failure, don't think I'll be speaking out as they're deciding to wash their hands of the whole tragic mess: JXA, AppleScript, Apple events, OSA, and all. So you lot who care about AppleScript, you'd do well to pluck your heads from the sand and pay attention to what's going on in the world outside it. Because they can all get along without AppleScript far more easily than you can survive without them. Maybe it's time y'all rolled up your sleeves, and start doing something about it.

/rant

has
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