Date: Friday, October 3, 2014 at 3:55 AM
To: ASOC List <
email@hidden>
Subject: Fwd: Now I can't get this terminology right, dammit!
< Start of rant>
Shane, I'm sure everyone, including me, is very, very appreciative of the time and effort you've put in over the years helping people, and writing Explorer and Explored, but I disagree with your assertion that I shouldn't expect programming to be a walk in the park. I've been programming since Microsoft Basic came out many years ago, (I had a 4 page program published in PC Magazine for the princely sum of Au$40), and taught myself Assembler on a Apple IIc (had two world wide educational programs released by Jacaranda Wiley), while I was teaching (TAFE Horticulture; some disparity there), but back then, Apple supplied documentation that was clear, comprehensive, and concise, and it came with the machine.
And it was an 8-bit chip that barely had any graphics capabilities, storage was simple at best, and networking didn't really exist. Much less security, animation, databases, etc.
You know, all the things that we use now, without even thinking about it.
But not now. People must struggle to learn the basics of the likes of ASObjC, and it's simply not right. You personally shouldn't of had to spend years and years learning the intricacies of ASObjC, and think it's the norm. It shouldn't be. If Apple are releasing any programming language, they should supply the same clear and concise documentation similar as they used to.
Wait, you think the documentation for ObjC is clear or concise for the newb? Really?
Because if you have a source for this, with great examples that clearly illustrate not just what the individual code statements are doing, but also the thinking behind it, please, share it with us. It certainly doesn't exist on
developer.apple.com.
Stating that Mac OS development should still be as simple and easy as it was on the Apple IIe is beyond unreasonable. It's silly. And, by the way, it wasn't easy on the IIe. You just didn't have much of a choice, given the state of software at the time.
We have the bloody right to it. We friggin support them, and have done through thick and thin. They're letting us down.
That is very, very close to entitlement.
With your help over the past three years, and also from others, I've learnt a lot about ASObjC, but I continue to be frustrated by how to interpret code snippets from ObjC. Not all of us have your insight on how this process works, and the documentation on it is dismal, and it shouldn't be. ASObjC is not difficult once you see examples of how it can be used, just getting those examples is frustrating. You should NOT have to jump through hoops trying to learn the process of conversion, it should be laid out. Having to somehow learn about the process of how to convert first, and be expected to come up with correct code, before seeing working code as examples of how it should work? Well, from a teaching point of view, that's a @#$%^ back to front approach. If I'd had taught theory and prac like that, my Apprentices would have killed me. And if I'd used terms on them like 'Surely', and 'it should be obvious' would have meant me getting the sack. Nothing is sure and obvious to anyone until they've learnt everything the subject is about, and by then , my role as a teacher would have been fulfilled.
This is how programming is taught nowadays. Everywhere. You are expected to memorize syntax with no context, no point, and then somehow, after memorizing context, you are then expected to magically be able to apply it. I've gone through the "best" books on ObjC, and about 8 chapters in, I'm trying to memorize syntax, but I have no idea what the hell they do or why I care, and no one teaching programming seems to give a crap. It's almost as if you aren't able to learn that way, you have no business programming. "here's the API reference and header files. What more do you need?"
Shane's book is one of the few ones, the VERY few that actually has, in the exercises, applications that show WHY you do things the way AppleScriptObjC wants them done. It's one of the only reasons I can use it well. Also, it's not assuming you've been coding for 20 years.
You have one good point that is sadly buried in this rant: Apple's documentation for AppleScriptObjC sucks. That is wrong, and anyone involved with AppleScriptObjC will agree with you. But, and this is important, that is not shane's fault. Take your frustrations with apple out on apple, not everyone else, and right now, that is what it seems like you are doing.
I can understand your desire to have everyone able to convert code willy-nilly, but for some of us (and I expect a lot of would-be-programmers), concrete examples rather than airy-faery ideals are a far, far better approach. I've learnt more from Ron's quick example that trying to learn how to decipher bloody methods of conversion, and in 30 minutes of coding compared to the I'd-still-be-frustratingly-trying-after-many-hours approach you took with me.
I would point out that at this point, you have essentially owned this list since early august and shane has done his best to help you for over a month, almost two. Constantly. Mind you, free of charge, and at this point, he's as much responsible for your code as you are. You have mixed more and more grudging thanks with diatribes about how he's not being "nice enough" or somehow read your mind to figure out how you learn best and then rejiggered how he does things to suit you.
If you want more out of him, or really anyone, if you want him or anyone else to teach you in the precise way you want to be taught, you might consider the concept of "paying for services". He has gone far and above what he's "required" to do here. And he does that for pretty much everyone who asks. There's quite a few things he's taught me, most importantly, how to find the answers on my own.
He does not owe you a single reply. Yet he has, over and over, tried to help you as best he can. And that is the way you thank him for this month+ of work? "If you were any good, you'd have done it this other way"?
Really?
I think we're at an impasse on this.
For some values of "impasse".
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