Re: Cocoa downgrade from openstep?
Re: Cocoa downgrade from openstep?
- Subject: Re: Cocoa downgrade from openstep?
- From: Scott Anguish <email@hidden>
- Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 19:50:22 -0400
On Wednesday, August 8, 2001, at 06:50 PM, Eric Peyton wrote:
Quickly - if you think this is degrading away from the -dev charter -
please let me know directly and I will make sure it stays on course as
best I can. This is a long response to a long rant.
That was not a rant. Nor was it intended to piss you off Eric..
I've cut this down drastically.... (It's chilling, that you said "If
this degrades in to a -talk posting I will do my best to stop it."
especially since it's not the first time it's happened on this list.
The removal of any technical functionality does degrade from what
OpenStep 4.2 offered. This includes cross-platform, EOF or anything
else removed, regardless of WHY it was removed (i.e. management). This
IS technology removed from Cocoa.
I believe that my comments about the lack of Cocoa's ability to
provide a complete capability, which was present in OpenStep 4.2, is
most certainly a technology issue.
<snip>
- cross-platform is gone
This has nothing to do with cocoa as a language or as a technology
(which is Erik's point). This is and was a management decision. Not
pertinent to this discussion.
- eof as a standard part of the system, gone
This has nothing to do with cocoa as a language or as a technology
(which is Erik's point). This is and was a management decision. Not
pertinent to this discussion.
- pantone support, gone
I do not know the reasoning behind this (someone could enlighten me
however).
I think it would be safe to say that "this is and was a management
decision", and by your standard, not relevant.
However, in all three cases, it is a technical capability not
present in Cocoa which was present as a unified part of the OpenStep 4.2
frameworks. In the first two cases, these are STRICTLY about technology
that OpenStep offered that is now gone, for whatever reason.
<snip>
For now, yes. But this is not something that could be blamed as
degradation of Cocoa, just not Cocoa improvement. Not pertinent to
this discussion.
(Boy - I am saying that a lot - Scott - you really took this simple
Cocoa degradation thread and turned it in to an attack on the state of
OS X, not Cocoa.)
You're saying it a lot, however in many cases, you're not actually
addressing the issue at hand.. this was technology present in OpenStep
4.2 that is now gone... but by your criteria that doesn't count. As a
developer for the platform, I disagree. That doesn't hold the weight of
opinion that your's will, but that is again, perception.
I love OS X.. and Cocoa. I'd rather not do anything else, but
unfortunately Apple tends to make that necessary.
Reading Erik (Bucks) original message, he said "I don't know how
much you use Cocoa, but it is significantly downgraded from Openstep 4.2
in many respects."
If you want to focus on the single respect of performance, that's
fine. I'd choosen to address the additional issues, as well as your
talking about the great new functionality that we got... Erik has
discussed his graphics performance issues in the past on macosx-dev...
If you want to dismiss my comments about functionality missing
(which was intended to be presented as things that Apple could really
benefit from adding to Cocoa instead of the much smaller bits that
they've added (that you listed); and also intended to demonstrate how
Cocoa doesn't currently (and may very well NEVER - again, according to
what I've been told) provide a comprehensive coverage of the
capabilities that are available to the OS (which it did in OpenStep),
then fine.