Re: Tracking files the right way -- NeXT apps are less intuitive with worse HI?
Re: Tracking files the right way -- NeXT apps are less intuitive with worse HI?
- Subject: Re: Tracking files the right way -- NeXT apps are less intuitive with worse HI?
- From: Charles Srstka <email@hidden>
- Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 20:52:26 -0500
I've said it before, and I'll say it again - please let's *not* turn
this into a flamewar. I was finding the discussion quite interesting,
and it would be a shame to see it degenerate into OS bashing.
The Mac OS and NeXT OS both have had some great ideas, and they've both
had their flaws. On both sides of the camp we tend to have this "if a
feature came from *my* OS, it's great, if it came from *your* OS, it's
crap" attitude. Instead of bickering, we sent feedback to Apple telling
them what they can improve so that we can have all the great features
from *both* OS's, we'd be better off. For example, I suggest you send
them feedback to make an option in the preferences that decides which
side of the window a scroll bar appears on.
Hey, it worked for me - in Jaguar there are a number of improvements
that I and other users have been asking them to make:
1. correct alias behavior
2. the Cocoa API for flavorTypePromiseHFS
3. spring-loaded folders
as well as various other things.
Charles
On Friday, August 30, 2002, at 06:34 PM, James DiPalma wrote:
I agree with Ondra and have similar experience. Everyone I knew
including many Apple fans preferred using NeXT based applications over
anything else. There is no substitute for clean, consistent, and clear
user experience.
Why is this relevant to cocoa-dev? If we as a community constantly
gripe about how NeXT's influence on Mac OS X is dismissing years of
better UI, we won't see innovations like: an applications menu, a find
pasteboard, file bundles, user directories, and many more. I don't
think these innovations are without influence from Apple tradition and
many talented Apple employees, but they are breaks from a MacOS
tradition that is strong enough to prevent innovations from happening.
I had hopes that Mac OS X would go further, but we'll probably never
see innovations that break from industry conventions (we are teaching
our children to use computers how we like to use computers and not how
user interface studies show a computer should be used); scrollbars
will never be on a view's left.
Also, it shows how important consistency in our development is; I know
that Cmd-n in Finder is a pain to many, but consistency within all of
Mac OS X and its apps is more important than tradition. I hope we
don't see Mac OS's inconsistencies become a part of Mac OS X.
Here are some examples of why I think NeXT OSes had a better UI than
any Mac OS including OS X:
Clean
One window style
NeXT OSes had one look for all windows, including menus, which where
in a window. A window's contents communicated meaning by adhering to
conventions (e.g. menus look like menus and alert panels have an app's
icon on their left side). Mac OS 9 has many window styles; modal
alerts, system alerts, windows, utility windows, and a few others
including calculator's rounded windows; all have different window
borders. OS X has 3: window, utility window (which looks similar, but
shrunken), and brushed steel that kinda means a one window app.
File bundles
NeXT OSes used app bundles and file bundles to simplify a user's
interaction with their files.
Home directories and path conventions
NeXT OSes used home directories and paths like ~/Library/Preferences
to separate user's data from application and system files. These
conventions cleaned up interacting with applications
Consistent
Sliders and scrollbars
Sliders and scrollbars look similar and have some reflection of real
word widgets. On NeXT OSes user interaction with these controls is
consistent. In Mac OS, sliders click to focus and scrollbars page jump
(having never used a computer, would you guess that scrollbars would
page jump?).
Consistent shortcuts
NeXT OSes and Mac OS both have some consistency with shortcuts, but
NeXT applications always showed more consistency. My opinion here is
based on memories of developing IB's menu palette; we looked at too
many Mac OS applications that had no consistency in menu organization,
nor in shortcut conventions.
Applications menu
NeXT OS applications all have application menus (as do OS X apps) that
define a location convention for menus like: Help, Preferences, and
Info (About in OS X). About menu items under a system menu are
consistent, but not clear: "About MyApp" is no more a system menu than
"Services" is an application menu.
Clear
Scrollbars
NeXT OSes used dynamic scrolling with proportional sized thumbs in
their scrollbars and used click-to-focus behavior. These simple
innovation allowed users to see how big a document was and more easily
interact with any application that showed data. NeXT OS had these
innovations before its first public release in 1989, how many years
before Mac OS added dynamic scrolling and proportional sized thumbs?
Edited windows
NeXT OSes altered a window's close button to show a broken "X" when a
window was edited. Without this simple innovation, I felt a small
level of uncertainty every time I edited any document in Mac OS;
pressing Cmd-S to save and not seeing any visual change in a
document's window made me even more nervous.
Ellipses
NeXT OSes used a simple convention for "..." in menu items: if a
window was brought front. This convention hints to users what was
about to happen, Apple uses "..." to hint to a user what type of
action a menu will perform (an action that requires user interaction;
or an action that can be cancelled; or an action that shows an
application settings window, but not a document settings window, nor
any action that opens a window that is typically open during an
application's use). Is that clear?
"Special"
Without looking, what is in a "Special" menu? You would not know
without being a traditional Mac OS user. No one can argue that
grouping functionality under a "Special" menu is providing a more
intuitive and better human interface, but it has been part of Mac OS
for decades.
Functional
Scrollbars on data's left
As simple as this is, so few understand. English and other Romantic
languages have influenced how we display information; information is
concentrated on a view's left. At least textual data will very often
be heavily left shifted because structural elements of text are left
justified. If a view is partially obstructed on Mac OS, a user must
choose between obstructing data or its scrollbar. Interestingly, this
one innovation affects usage patterns like window placement and dock
placement; without it, I find myself unnecessarily moving windows back
and forth, placing my dock on screen left where it can do no harm, and
daily feeling like Mac OS is stuck getting in my way.
Find pasteboard
For a developer, a must. A simple intuitive innovation that is cleanly
incorporated into every application.
I argue that NeXT OSes ease of use is founded on clear, consistent,
well implemented user experience and that Mac OS ease of use is
founded on tradition.
-jim
On Friday, August 30, 2002, at 10:15 AM, Ondra Cada wrote:
On Friday, August 30, 2002, at 03:22 , Mike Shields wrote:
I really feel that MacOS apps have in general been more intuitive
and had better HI that apps coming over from NeXT.... This is
something that people seem to ignore...
Mainly since the exact opposite is true.
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