Re: Why Cocoa source code isn't open? [terribly OT]
Re: Why Cocoa source code isn't open? [terribly OT]
- Subject: Re: Why Cocoa source code isn't open? [terribly OT]
- From: "Erik M. Buck" <email@hidden>
- Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 21:06:11 -0600
- Organization: EMB & Assocites Inc.
I would like it if Cocoa source was available, but I understand Apple's
position or I used to understand.
Why isn't Carbon open ?
Why isn't any closed API that you can think of open ?
PowerPlant, MacApp, MFC, Qt, etc are all thin wrappers around closed APIs.
That is why the wrappers can be open. The wrappers are useless without some
other closed component.
In the old days, Cocoa/Openstep/NeXTstep was the only API. They were not
wrappers around anything (except maybe Mach). All software on the platform
was written using the frameworks and the separate not really underlying BSD
APIs.
Apple has spent the last 5 years making Cocoa slightly slower and in many
cases turning it into wrappers around Carbon. That makes sense if all life
is based on Carbon. Carbon is king. Cocoa is an optional add-on that
developers can use if they are willing to give up cross platform and OS < 10
support.
In the new context, I don't know why Cocoa can not be open. Like
PowerPlant, MacApp, MFC, Qt, etc., Cocoa is now just a wrapper around an
indispensable closed API, Carbon.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oleg Svirgstin" <email@hidden>
To: "CocoaDevList" <email@hidden>
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 7:35 PM
Subject: Why Cocoa source code isn't open? [terribly OT]
>
Dear all,
>
Especially those from the other side of the Firewire,
>
>
Why are Cocoa frameworks NOT open for public review?
>
>
[starting from that point, "framework" is used in its "common world"
>
meaning, not in the "NeXT/Cocoa" way]
>
>
Most of modern frameworks, including PowerPlant, MacApp, MFC etc arrive
with
>
their sources open. It gives incredible benefits, especially valuable in
>
these days when no documentation can be "on time".
>
>
Viewing the code one can save a lot of expensive experts' time - one could
>
easily get to the place of interest and find out what is going on there
and
>
how to trick the situation to his/her project's benefit.
>
>
Not to speak of tremendously rich library of Objective-C techniques,
tricks
>
and patterns...
>
>
Not to speak about much higher level of possible suggestions to the
>
developers of Cocoa.
>
>
Not to speak of possible better debugging (if we could see what really
>
happens, not as assembler but as real source, sometimes even with
>
comments!!!)
>
>
Well, certain problems are obvious, too (protection of proprietary code,
>
possible rip-offs, keeping some (attribute omitted) users away from making
>
changes in the code etc) - but are they comparable to the benefits? Well,
>
the sources might open partially...
>
>
Another thing: I have had some experience in passing my code outside. I
had
>
to do a lot of work deleting idiotic comments like "don't forget to buy
>
milk" or "we had way too much beer last night"... We all tend to dress
>
differently going on public. (By the way, the cleaning helped me to
discover
>
and correct few lucky bugs waiting to turn into a problem one day...)
>
>
Could anybody explain me, WHY is it hidden? Is there a chance to see it
open
>
one day? Or it's hidden for ever? (Please tell me the truth, whatever the
>
answer will be Cocoa is great, free and much more powerful than any other
>
thing I know...)
>
>
I don't talk about making it another open-source project. Though... A bit
of
>
"open-sourceness" never hurts.
>
>
Best regards
>
Please, don't kill me for my stupid off-topic questions
>
Oleg
>
A Local Cocoa Evangelist
>
>
PS Is a version of GNU C++ compliant to the C9X standard expected in the
>
near future?
>
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