Re: Document with multiple windows
Re: Document with multiple windows
- Subject: Re: Document with multiple windows
- From: Charles Srstka <email@hidden>
- Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 21:44:13 -0500
Sorry that this became somewhat of a rant - it's finals week here, and
I'm a bit stressed out...
On Monday, May 13, 2002, at 08:33 PM, Ondra Cada wrote:
>
Until Mac OS X went in with its clumsy way of semi-transparent titles
>
(which look almost the same as the non-transparent ones, especially if
>
white or even stripes happen to be below), the main/key/other windows
>
were
>
distinguishable at the very first look, without the slightest chance of
>
mistake.
Perhaps for you, a developer. For many end users, the expectation is
that what you type is going to go where you can *see* it. Why should all
users have to learn the distinction main window vs. key window vs. front
window. etc.? These things are for programmers, i.e. my use of the main
window to keep the doc window in the responder chain. Ordinary users
shouldn't have to know what a main window or a key window is. They just
know that the window that comes up front is the window they can type in.
And this is the way it should be. Simplicity.
As for the slightest chance of mistake... I'm in OmniWeb, and I click a
download link. I intend to go back to my browsing and read the rest of
the page, so when the download manager pops up, I hit command-W to close
it and go back to my browsing. But it closes the browser window instead,
leaving me with just the download manager, because Omni decided to bring
the download manager to the front using orderFront: instead of
makeKeyAndOrderFront:. What the title bar looked like on the download
manager makes absolutely no difference, even though, to me they look
quite different, with the background windows having all the color
removed - I'm guessing you probably run in graphite mode if you think
they look the same. What matters, though, is that when I hit command-W,
I intend for it to close the frontmost window, not the window behind it
and partially obscured by it! Not being used to this behavior, I have my
fingers on the command and W keys before that download manager even
comes up for me to look at its title. It's impulsive, and natural. And
if the software behaved logically, it would work. Unfortunately, it
doesn't, and I have to open a new window and navigate back to where I
was, because Omni has shipped 6 betas with the same, easily correctable
bug in it, ignoring the bug reports that I (and I'm sure many others)
have sent. It wouldn't have happened in the classic MacOS.
>
VERY VERY good one. For example: you are writing a document, want to
>
insert a screenshot: arrange the window-to-be-shot above the doc (of
>
course without it losing the focus), and just call
>
Services/Grab/Whatever.
>
.. voila!
How often do you do this?
Even if you do this often for some reason, a better solution for this
(imho) would be to allow command-shift-4 to capture to the clipboard.
Then you would do this:
1. Bring the window you want to grab to the front
2. command-shift-4
3. bring the original window to the front
4. paste
where your method is:
1. Bring the window you want to grab to the front (without making it key)
2. grab the window using services -> grab -> selection
3. make the key window frontmost again
So you have one extra step of simply typing command-V, but in exchange
you get a much simpler, clearer, more consistent and less confusing
interface. Bug Apple for this feature, not for typing into background
windows.
>
Often I want to see another, reference window when writing. Even on my
>
22"
>
there often is not screen estate enough to reach that goal without
>
either
>
this great feature -- or without perpetual resizing and moving windows,
>
which would be a total killer to any effectivity.
Perhaps what you want is WindowShade, which was a standard feature in
Classic MacOS and is available for Mac OS X as a piece of shareware,
written by someone on this mailing list. It's a better solution than
putting a reference window above your document, because then you will
inevitably end up covering up part of what you are writing.
>
the ability to re-order windows is just VITAL for an effective work
>
crippled AppKit
>
the Carbon rot
>
If you dislike effectivity, that is. It's the same as almost all other
>
changes on the way from NeXT to Mac OS X :((((
Are you trying to be inflammatory? Along with other comments you tend to
make - "There were almost no cases in which the MacOS was more luxurious
than NeXT" "Apple never used a NeXT solution when there was a better
solution in MacOS, but they used the MacOS solutions all the time when
there was a better solution in NeXT" "as unusable as Classic always was"
etc. etc. It often sounds like you just want to start a fight. The funny
thing is, in other places I've heard almost the exact same comments as
these ones that you like to give on this list, just as closed-minded,
just as inflammatory, and just as absurd, but with the words "MacOS" and
"NeXT" swapped. Granted, a lot of this type of this type of flaming died
down in recent times, because it got a bit *old.* These holy wars are
entirely unnecessary and will only bring about the downfall of our
platform if they continue. A house divided cannot stand, etc. etc.
Some of us like the Classic MacOS, and consequently a lot of things that
we get from it in Carbon, quite a lot. Can you accept that? It's getting
tiring hearing your rants about how the NeXTStep OS could do no wrong
and the MacOS can do no right, and how everything from the MacOS is
garbage and should be thrown out, etc. I don't see many people in this
place speaking of NeXT in the bitter terms that you seem to use
regularly - it would be nice if you could extend the same consideration
to us...
>
And, don't please forget that if the possibility IS there, nobody forces
>
you to use it. Alas, if it is NOT there, I am forced to swear
>
continually
>
living without it!!!
Interesting, in light of your previous statements about things you want
*dead*, i.e. aliases, FSRefs, and anything else that came from Carbon
and wasn't invented at NeXT... no one forces you to use most of those
things either. When OmniWeb throws up a download manager in front of my
face without making it key, causing me to close the window behind it,
it's kind of difficult to ignore...
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