Re: (That Obj-C/Java Req -- Re: Jobs) - Java GUIs
Re: (That Obj-C/Java Req -- Re: Jobs) - Java GUIs
- Subject: Re: (That Obj-C/Java Req -- Re: Jobs) - Java GUIs
- From: Sheehan Olver <email@hidden>
- Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 16:21:16 -0600
Well, I do a lot of Java programming, especially GUIs (btw to those
who say that desktop java is a flop are mistaken. I think you'd be
surprised at how many Windows programs use java. I have yet to notice a
speed difference between a java gui and a native gui). There are
several interface builders, such as JBuilder, but I they tend not to be
very good compared to Interface Builder. This is mainly since they
don't use the MVC model, so you have to put your controller code in the
gui code. This makes editing interfaces a pain. You might want to look
at eclipse and SWT, which I've heard many people recommend, though I've
never used it.
What I've seen most java programmers do is just write the gui by hand
using GridBagLayout. This works resonably well for creating
Windows-level guis (i.e. you won't get the same quality as you will
with interface builder). This is where the true problem with java gui
is, in the layout managers. If java supported a nib-like system it
would be about 10x better.
I thought I'd put my 2 cents on the "java language sucks compared to
Objective-C" argument. This has a lot to do with what you are used to.
If you are used to perl, you would probably say Objective-C sucks
because of all the things it lacks that perl has. The fact is, every
language has benefits and tradeoffs. For example, Categories pose a
security problem as far as java is concerned since you can fool the
framework with your own code. What you get with java is a strong
security framework, a giant framework included with the jdk, servlets,
EJBs, cross platform support, etc. What you get with Objective-C is
access to C code, interface builder, truly dynamic language
(Categories, performSelector, etc.), fast native gui, etc. They
obviously have different strong points and different weaknesses, and
you can't really say one is superior to the other.
On Sunday, November 17, 2002, at 12:44 PM,
email@hidden wrote:
Message: 14
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 18:07:49 +0000
Subject: (That Obj-C/Java Req -- Re: Jobs) - Java GUIs
From: Pete Carss <email@hidden>
To: cocoa-dev <email@hidden>
This is not flame-bait - honest
Since there seem to be a few Java evangelists on the list, do any of
them know of a good tool for building GUIs? I don't hold with the "real
programmers to it with code" ethic. IMHO "real" programmers should
usually leave the interface to "real" HCI people, who are often
non-programmers. I thought that ProjectBuilder was going to fire up IB
when I selected a swing project, but alas no. Suddenly made me realise
what a good job apple had done integrating Cocoa/Java. I've used
netbeans and Jbuilder in the past, but at the moment I don't own a
machine man-enough to run either...Are there any standalone apps that
do this (mac or windows) or do I have to look to an IDE?
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