Re: Cocoa-Java Newbie
Re: Cocoa-Java Newbie
- Subject: Re: Cocoa-Java Newbie
- From: Marco Binder <email@hidden>
- Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 14:15:09 +0200
I agree that java has some advantages over ObjC in respect to
portability, availability of ready-to-use libraries and ease of use of
the language in general (if you DO come from a java background). I also
agree, that it is a petty, there are only so little examples in the
Cocoa Java folder.
But then: what else but the API documentation do you need? And these
docs are basically the same for ObjC and Java (except for some minor
"not yet available"s). Java is java- you ll find loads of books and
tutorials on the language itself. And Cocoa is Cocoa (basically)... the
API docs are pretty complete and understandable I think. One has to
read them carefully, think of superclasses invest a little bit of
thinking as to where to look for something, but then it is really easy
(remember, most of the postings to this list arise from incomplete
LECTURE of the docs, not from incomplete docs!).
Marco
Am Mittwoch, 11.06.03, um 05:43 Uhr (Europe/Berlin) schrieb Rick Kitts:
Hello and forgive me butting into the conversation. I've heard
this same position several times before and have found it not
entirely easy to digest.
The volume of available java code is simply enormous. Persistence
layers, XML bindings, etc. The same does not, as far as I can tell,
for Objc. So while I may be able to write a more performant OSX
app, and that's good, I probably could not write as functional an
app in Objc as in Java in the same timeframe. If I wish to
target multiple platforms (it escapes me why everyone is not running
OSX but there you go) Objc is really not an optimal choice.
Frankly I wish that Cocoa-Java had several very useful enhancements
and I suspect these alone would make Cocoa-Java be far easier to
grok. My top 10 Cocoa-Java
1 - better documentation
2 - better documentation in javadoc
3 - better documentation
4 - better examples
5 - better documentation
6 - Documentation, better
7 - javadoc documentation
8 - docs
9 - examples
10 - An animal book
Doing Objc is simply, for me, not an option. I'll give up developing
Cocoa-Java and try Swing on OSX first. That would be a shame.
---Rick
On Sunday, June 8, 2003, at 09:31 AM, Marco Binder wrote:
Hello James,
I am sure you have already found (and done?) the tutorial Apple
provided for Cocoa Java:
file:///Developer/Documentation/Cocoa/JavaTutorial/index.html
This should really get you started. it did the job for me. (Not too
long ago, maybe two years or so)
Now this will sound like the standard response of people on this list
to anyone who only mentions "Java" in a Cocoa context in here.
However,
for me it turned out to be a question, too, even without reading this
list back then: why not have a look at Objective C?!
I m not a pro, but just for the simplicity and the aestethics of java
code, I once decided to learn java. when I say learn, I mean it like
finding some way or another to make things do what I want. Like if it
were a spoken language, I could order my sandwich and coke, but never
really talk bout politics. Then I started doing Java on OS X, "Cocoa
Java" and thought it is THE dropdead perfect solution. Java as a
NATIVE
language for the Mac! Wow!
However, it turned out to be different. Although Apple likes (liked?)
to promote Java a "native" language for OS X, it is not. Not really.
Although Cocoa Java is AMAZINGLY performant as compared to any other
GUI java, it is still somewhat slower than "real" cocoa (especially
the
first start of a java app can take ages). Then, there are some
restrictions in the use of the NS*** classes, as you will notice very
soon, when digging through the documentation on your searches for
appropriate classes.
To make the long story short: in the end, I found myself being
curious,
how hard it might be to learn Objective C. Especially the memory
managment, which you do need for ObjC but not for Java really, made me
worry. Allocating memory? Remembering which object you created because
you have to MANUALLY destroy it later on? I did have some experience
in
C++, but that was long ago and not very sound. So I was really
hesitating first. But VERY quickly, i discovered, that ObjC is soooo
beautiful. And easy. And powerful. And easy, did I mention that
before?! It took me no longer than ONE day to get used to the
language.
With the API docs at hand, I was able to do an app in no time!
I dont want to make you switch from Cocoa java to ObjC Cocoa. I just
want to encourage you to give it a try! I promise, ONE SINGLE day will
be enough to give you the feeling. Spend one day with ObjC and THEN
decide!
Now have fun getting started with OS X programming and produce some
good apps,
Marco
Am Sonntag, 08.06.03, um 16:00 Uhr (Europe/Berlin) schrieb James
McConnell:
Greetings, all. As the subject line states, I am new to Cocoa-Java,
and
this being my first post to the list, I just wanted to introduce
myself. I
am normally a Java developer, but after struggling with Swing to get
it to
behave like a Mac, and failing horribly, I felt it was time to just
give up
and learn Cocoa-Java, as my OS of choice is Mac.
So I was simply wondering if you people know of any good sites with
tutorials on Cocoa-Java, especially those dealing with Project and
Interface
Builder. I will be perusing the documentation for the code side of
things,
but I need to learn how to use Interface Builder in conjunction with
Project
Builder effectively, and I don't have the funds right now to go buy a
book,
so I'm looking for free sites w/ tutorials.
I'll be looking myself, but if anyone has any suggestions, they would
be
greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, everyone!
James
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