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Re: Future Objective-C changes
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Re: Future Objective-C changes


  • Subject: Re: Future Objective-C changes
  • From: Jeff Disher <email@hidden>
  • Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 03:05:48 -0400

Why does everyone insist on polluting the Objective-C language so much? None of what anyone has asked for in this thread or the similar thread on Omni-Dev a while back would actually add power to the language or any other meaningful qualities.

The problem is that people want Obj-C to be C++. I don't understand this issue and I think that you would realize that none of what you are referring to is needed if everyone decided to learn Obj-C paradigms instead of trying to shoe-horn C++ paradigms into it. If you want something ugly to code in that badly, use Obj-C++.

Sorry for the rant but these threads are becoming a real annoyance to me, lately.

As for these suggestions:
a) useful in concept but a good naming scheme (like the prefixing in the API) is equivalent and means that you don't have to add additional stuff to the language
b) this is useless to Obj-C. Claiming that this is needed usually means that you are trying to write C++-ish code in Obj-C. There are issues with templates (compiler brokenness because they are so damn odd as well as huge binary bloat, for example) which do not occur in the OO solutions used in Obj-C which are inherently superior (although, admittedly, often not quite as fast)
c) There is no need for a way of specifying something as abstract. You simply override alloc and allocWithZone: to return nil if ([self isEqual: [<class name> class]]) else return [super alloc]
d) "Method overloading" is a bad term here, IMHO, but it is not really needed since part of the idea is that one makes the selector describe what the objects are. This is essentially what you want the compiler to do for you but it becomes difficult to define what you want to see happen when every object should just be (id). Although potentially useful for primitives, I don't think it would actually be much use in actual practice. You have to remember that in Obj-C methods should be descriptive since it is very english-like and that is part of its power.

I am very puzzled by this drive to make everything into C++. I sure hope that none of these changes are actually implemented since they seem to exist purely to complicate a very simple and elegant language. Remember that C++ is referred to as "an octopus made by nailing extra legs onto a dog" and I would hate to see Obj-C become something similar.

Sorry, I just felt the need to state my views on this since this issue keeps coming up,
Jeff.

On Friday, May 16, 2003, at 12:04 AM, David Cittadini wrote:

Is there anywhere to monitor or suggest changes to the Objective-C language? For example, I am interested to know if one day Objective-C classes will support:

a) Namespaces/packages.
b) Generics/parameterized types.
c) Abstract classes, or at least some way to enforce that a class cannot be instantiated directly.
d) Method overloading.

I know that Objective-C++ provides this support but only if you are using C++ classes. I am interested if the above will be supported in "native" Objective-C classes. I know that people will have lots of for-and-against arguments for the above but being a simple programmer some of the above would be very useful.

Thanks, David.
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Jeff Disher
President and Lead Developer of Spectral Class
Spectral Class: Shedding Light on Innovation
http://www.spectralclass.com/
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  • Follow-Ups:
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      • From: David Cittadini <email@hidden>
    • Re: Future Objective-C changes
      • From: Marco Scheurer <email@hidden>
References: 
 >Future Objective-C changes (From: David Cittadini <email@hidden>)

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