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Re: Newbie question: forcing data format during saveDocumentTo:
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Re: Newbie question: forcing data format during saveDocumentTo:


  • Subject: Re: Newbie question: forcing data format during saveDocumentTo:
  • From: email@hidden
  • Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 23:32:54 -0700

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. I have been designing software for very unsophisticated users for fifteen years now, and in this case I want it absolutely clear that when they export the data it is NOT a Save As... When two actions lead to completely different results, they should not be lumped together. There are times when an additional option can at least demarcate the straightforward from the complex.

Plus, in my experiments over the last few days, when you define types using NSExportableAs they are not available when the save panel is invoked using saveDocumentAs (they are disabled in the popup menu). They are available only for saveDocumentTo: actions. That could just be something I'm doing, but it makes sense not to allow Save As for file types the application can't read, since that file becomes the working file. I believe the Cocoa boys gave us these two actions for a reason, and carefully thought through the distinctions between them.

So for both semantic and operational reasons I want to make Save As and Export (Save To) separate options.

My knowledge of how the two are implemented is really not an issue, especially since I haven't figured that out the whole way yet. The key is that the user will choose to export for entirely different reasons than when they choose Save As. It is all about the "What they are doing" decision. When they are exporting, they are doing something different than when they are saving, and they are doing it for different reasons.

I will allow that there are plenty of applications that include less-capable file types in the save as dialog, along with the appropriate warnings, and many of them work just fine. But in all those cases the new version of the data is at least usable by the application that just saved it. That is not the case here. Once that data goes out, it's not coming back.

OK, enough of that. I'm afraid I may have come off as rather snippy; sorry about that. That was not intended. I really do appreciate your feedback. What was my question again?

Jerry


On Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 03:37 PM, Alastair J.Houghton wrote:

On Wednesday, September 3, 2003, at 05:36 pm, email@hidden wrote:

I am definitely Exporting; when saving as rtf I am only saving a subset of the data. It is not a file that can be used to continue working in my app. I don't want the user to have the slightest indication that after exporting he can delete the original file.

You're missing the point Scott was trying to make. You shouldn't have an Export option in your menu, because it doesn't mean anything to a user... they will not know why they should Export rather than choosing Save As. What you should do instead is make your Save As box detect the file type they have chosen, and warn them if it doesn't support all of the data that you need to save.

In general, when designing a user-interface, you should imagine a user who:

* Isn't an expert at using a computer.

* Is more interested in what they are doing than in how they are doing it.

* Is likely to become confused if presented with many options at once, especially if they have very little guidance available as to which one they want.

* Won't see distinctions based upon *how* the task they wish to achieve is implemented (Export vs. Save As, or Save As vs. Save a Copy, for example).

The distinction between Export and Save As is an artefact of the fact that you know how they are implemented; if you did not, the distinction would not be clear, so our hypothetical user will not know which one to choose if they want to e.g. save a file as RTF.

Kind regards,

Alastair.
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    • Re: Newbie question: forcing data format during saveDocumentTo:
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