Re: Newbie question: forcing data format during saveDocumentTo:
Re: Newbie question: forcing data format during saveDocumentTo:
- Subject: Re: Newbie question: forcing data format during saveDocumentTo:
- From: "Alastair J.Houghton" <email@hidden>
- Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 12:43:24 +0100
On Thursday, September 4, 2003, at 09:53 am, Wade Tregaskis wrote:
How does your Export option do anything different from a Save As?
From a user's point of view, you still end-up with a file on the disk
(so they have saved it, right?).
That's a gross over simplification.
I really don't see a distinction, except in that the application might
not be able to re-open something that you have "exported", but that
isn't anything to do with the save/export operation itself. The only
time it might make sense to have an export option is if the application
is *obviously* (to the user) converting the data into a form that would
not be editable in that application (for example, if a vector graphics
program saved a bitmap), and even then, there are probably better names
for the option (e.g. "Save as Bitmap...", or an Export submenu with
"Bitmap..." as an option).
Personally, I'd still use the Save As box, but if I couldn't load the
data once it was saved like this, I'd warn the user when they saved,
and I wouldn't clear the document changed flag (so that they get
asked to save if the application terminates).
This seems far less intuitive to me. They go to Save As, with the
intent of making a copy of their document and working on that copy -
leaving the original version henceforth untouched - and then they're
asked to save again later.. what the?
[snip]
It is implicit that anything you have 'saved' can be 'loaded' again.
If you break this convention, you'll only confuse people, as in the
example above.
That's why you should warn them, and not clear the document changed
flag so that they are given another opportunity to save an editable
version. Photoshop (a good example of UI design IMO) does exactly
this, with one enhancement; it requires the user to select "Save a
Copy" when they are about to save something that will lose information,
which makes them aware that they haven't actually saved the thing they
are working on.
Then there is the Import menu item. Unlike the load and save pair,
the formats supported by import need not be the same as those by
export, although they can [and usually do] overlap. The point of this
distinction (between save/load and export/import) is that users know
that when they are importing or exporting, they're converting to/from
the native format. This has several possible consequences, one of
which is that the import/export will be lossy (e.g. exporting a psd to
a jpg, then back again; you lose layers, vector art, quality, etc).
"Import" is often *even worse*! Why should I need to know what the
"native" format(s) of an application is (are)? Why can't I just load
it from the standard "Open" box? It really doesn't make sense; it's an
artificial distinction... I have to remember what type my file is in
order to open it! (Either that, or I have to look at it in Finder
first.) I also have to remember which file types are in the Open box
and which in the Import box. But why? What does it gain a user? The
only thing I can see is frustration, when the realise that they've
popped-up the Open dialog, browsed to where their file is in the
file-system, but can't open it because they actually needed the Import
dialog.
IMO, both distinctions are usually entirely unnecessary, and in the few
cases where Import and Export options might be appropriate, they should
be named (in the menu) such that it is obvious to the user whether they
need to choose Import or Open, Export or Save As.
Photoshop is, as I say, quite a good example of UI design in this
respect... it doesn't have Import or Export options; it *does* have
Import and Export submenus in the File menu, but these contain specific
tasks that couldn't be accomplished with a standard Open box on its own
(for example, importing a frame of video). That's very different from
the type of usage you are implying you support (e.g. Export to save a
JPEG, presumably Import to load one? But Open and Save for PSD files?).
Kind regards,
Alastair.
p.s. if you want to continue this discussion, perhaps it should be
off-list; UI design isn't off-topic per-se, but this is getting a bit
in-depth now.
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