• Open Menu Close Menu
  • Apple
  • Shopping Bag
  • Apple
  • Mac
  • iPad
  • iPhone
  • Watch
  • TV
  • Music
  • Support
  • Search apple.com
  • Shopping Bag

Lists

Open Menu Close Menu
  • Terms and Conditions
  • Lists hosted on this site
  • Email the Postmaster
  • Tips for posting to public mailing lists
Re: NO future for Cocoa-Java ?
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: NO future for Cocoa-Java ?


  • Subject: Re: NO future for Cocoa-Java ?
  • From: Bob Ippolito <email@hidden>
  • Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 23:54:48 -1000

On Jul 7, 2005, at 11:00 PM, Yvon Thoraval wrote:

Following XCode documentation latest's update i've seen that :

- apple advise to switch from java to Obj-C ;

Everyone else has been advising that since the beginning!

I'm not really sure why anyone ever trusted it. Apple never really used it much themselves (publicly, anyway), so they don't have any internal pressures to keep it functional.

- no more bindings from java to cocoa interfaces after 10.4.

the seems to be linked to apple's switch to Intel proc ...

I highly doubt that it has anything at all to do with that. It's been languishing for a long time, they might as well put it out of its misery.


does that means that Cocoa-Java, never been really alive, i dead ?

Cocoa-Java has never really worked quite right, and the way they decided to implement it was a massive burden on their developers. Basically, Apple made several huge mistakes. The Cocoa-Java bridge requires:


- Mappings from every single Objective-C selector to some Java method
- A completely separate set of documentation
- Separate tests to make sure they didn't screw up anything in the mapping (I'm not convinced these ever really existed, but proper maintenance would've required them)


This is obviously way too much work for little benefit. It *might* been worth it if a lot of people were using the Java bridge, but they're not. The Cocoa-Java bridge has never been reliable nor complete.

Apple was never eating their own dog food with the Cocoa-Java bridge, despite the fact it's been available for years. There aren't any Apple applications that I'm aware of that use the Java bridge for anything, other than the maybe some WebObjects dev tools and possibly little bits of Xcode, so the Java-Cocoa bridge only really *has* to work well enough to support that. If the Cocoa-Java bridge was really a worthwhile technology, Apple would've shipped a product or two that used it in the past 5 years.

Fortunately, other bridges have taken a different and sane approach, giving a 1:1 mapping between Objective C to/from the target language. Apple's Cocoa-Java bridge is actually the only one that does things the wrong way. Many of these bridges have real applications written in them and are an active target platform for new applications, so their maintenance is guaranteed (the open source bridges, anyway).

There's no reason a third party couldn't develop a Cocoa-Java bridge that was done in a sane way, people have already done it for many other langauges (Python, Ruby, Perl, LISP, SmallTalk, etc.). Many of these are open source, so if someone wanted to develop a Cocoa-Java bridge that worked, they wouldn't have to look much farther than the PyObjC source code (the most functional and stable bridge) to see what's necessary to do it correctly.

-bob

_______________________________________________
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Cocoa-dev mailing list      (email@hidden)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
This email sent to email@hidden


  • Follow-Ups:
    • Re: NO future for Cocoa-Java ?
      • From: John Stiles <email@hidden>
    • Re: NO future for Cocoa-Java ?
      • From: The Karl Adam <email@hidden>
    • Re: NO future for Cocoa-Java ?
      • From: String Larson <email@hidden>
References: 
 >NO future for Cocoa-Java ? (From: Yvon Thoraval <email@hidden>)

  • Prev by Date: Script Editor not displaying Suite info of loadable plugins
  • Next by Date: Re: NSTextView retainCount weirdness
  • Previous by thread: NO future for Cocoa-Java ?
  • Next by thread: Re: NO future for Cocoa-Java ?
  • Index(es):
    • Date
    • Thread