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Re: Learning Cocoa, but no programing experience, possible?
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Re: Learning Cocoa, but no programing experience, possible?


  • Subject: Re: Learning Cocoa, but no programing experience, possible?
  • From: Scott Ellsworth <email@hidden>
  • Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2006 10:35:37 -0800

I have taught cocoa on occasion, and I have found a few things that work.

First off, remember that what works for others may not work for you. I find, and my students have found, Hillegass to be the best book on the market, but Bill Cheesman's book, and Anguish/Buck/Yacktman run very close behind. Frankly, the bindings sections in Hillegass are usually what tip the balance. That said, if you find a different book better, then use it.

Second, begin as you mean to go on. If you want to do Cocoa, start out doing Cocoa, and learn the minimum ancillary stuff. Objective C is the easiest way to do that, as that is what the docs are in, so unless you are dead set against ObjC, I would start with that.

If you want to do Cocoa in Python, then start there, accepting that you will _have_ to learn some ObjC along the way.

On Feb 1, 2006, at 5:48 AM, Christian Cruz wrote:

- It is possible to learn Cocoa without going through the painful way
of learning C first?

I would not learn C first. I would learn Objective C as part of learning Cocoa. I give the same answer to new Java programmers who ask about learning C, or just learning the language and not the libraries - start with the language and libraries you want to use, and learn them as you need to.


- Can anyone recommend me a good book( I prefer books, tutorials are
good for me, but I prefer to start from a Book) to start from the
scratch?

Hillegass, Cheesman, or Anguish/Buck/Yacktman are the ones I have used. Others may be very good, but these are my tools.


- Should I start with AppleScriptStudio and Applescript first?

No, unless Applescript Studio does what you expect to need for the foreseeable future. If it does, then use it and forget Cocoa for now. Of course, Automator might be enough for some tasks too.


If you need a full, general purpose tool, Cocoa is a good choice, and if you want to do it eventually, then start with it.

- Should I learn something definetely easier like RealBasic?

No. Learn RealBasic if you already know basic, or want more cross platform options. Learn Java if you need more cross platform options, or if you have better resources for it. Learn Cocoa/ObjC if you want the best supported option on MacOS X (at this time).


I know it sounds akward..."this guy wants to learn how to fly a 767
without even gone inside a Cesna", but I really would appreciate any
guidance.

There is no royal road, as another poster has said. If you want to learn programming and Cocoa, you have a lot of learning ahead of you. Without baby steps, it is hard to keep motivated. That said, you should be able to do at least minor things in Cocoa/ObjC in just a few days to a week - Big Nerd Ranch has people doing useful stuff on the first day, but there are instructors there that provide guidance.


To stretch the analogy, I am not sure learning to fly a glider or float plane will advance your 747 goal either. Starting with small projects and definite tasks, like Cheesman's book does is like learning the Cessna before learning the 747. Starting with Applescript when what you want is Cocoa/ObjC is like learning to drive a railroad locomotive - a different task entirely, but that shares some commonality.

(NB - Applescript Studio, RealBasic, Java, etc. are all good tools for their tasks. I just do not believe that they advance the goal of learning Cocoa/Objective C.)

Scott

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  • Follow-Ups:
    • Re: Learning Cocoa, but no programing experience, possible?
      • From: Jeff LaMarche <email@hidden>
References: 
 >Learning Cocoa, but no programing experience, possible? (From: Christian Cruz <email@hidden>)

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