Re: When does Cocoa fall apart? (Run loops)
Re: When does Cocoa fall apart? (Run loops)
- Subject: Re: When does Cocoa fall apart? (Run loops)
- From: Chris Idou <email@hidden>
- Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2008 15:37:48 -0700 (PDT)
I think bindings don't merely avoid glue code, it also provides a separation of concerns. For example, I can do something to my document which changes the isEnabled status of a dozen toolbar buttons. Rather than the procedure which changes the document trying to anticipate every button that could be effected, each button has a method which listens for changes to the things which affect its status.
As for Cocoa, the most annoying thing is the source is invisible. Why doesn't Apple make it visible? There isn't anything so special in it that they will lose some proprietary secrets. They don't have to make it open source, just visible. There is nothing for them to lose. The nice thing about Java is that all the source has always been there for debugging. If something crashes in the guts of the system you can see the source that caused it. The black box nature of Cocoa is incredibly frustrating.
I'm in a bit of a bad mood at the moment about Apple's quality of testing. The Genius playlists on my iPod Classic synched from iTunes *play the wrong song* when you click on one. iDisk seems to blow up every month or two. I'm just now recovering from the iPhone 2.0 software debacle, not to mention Mobile Me.
--- On Wed, 10/22/08, I. Savant <email@hidden> wrote:
> From: I. Savant <email@hidden>
> Subject: Re: When does Cocoa fall apart? (Run loops)
> To: email@hidden
> Cc: email@hidden
> Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 7:18 AM
> On Wed, Oct 22, 2008 at 9:56 AM, Chris Idou
> <email@hidden> wrote:
>
> > The problem I reported recently where
> NSObjectController screws up KVO has been confirmed by Apple
> as a real bug as well. I'm not too impressed with Cocoa
> at the moment.
>
> I can understand "not too impressed with
> Bindings" but Cocoa overall?
>
> You really must consider that Bindings isn't the only
> game in town
> (and in fact didn't even exist until recently in
> Cocoa's surprisingly
> long history). Your struggles, if I'm recalling
> correctly, seem to all
> stem from using Bindings. Perhaps you should consider not
> using the
> mechanism at all and concentrate on building your app
> without it?
> There are plenty of apps out there today that are both
> modern *and*
> don't use Bindings. I believe I also heard that Apple
> apps don't use
> Binding either, but that claim may have been wrong or is
> now outdated.
>
> I myself don't use Bindings for anything but the most
> basic
> scenarios for which it seems to have been meant
> (particularly,
> managing a list of things or master/detail setup). I have
> found the
> rest of Cocoa to be very solid. In six years, I can recall
> only
> running into (or discovering) four or five bugs with the
> API itself.
> That's a vastly different experience from the one
> I've had with
> "other" platforms.
>
> People often complain "I thought it was supposed to
> save me from
> writing glue code". Sure, that's its intent, but
> it's unreasonable to
> expect it to eliminate all - or even most - glue code. This
> isn't
> meant to be confrontational, but rather comical: Suck it
> up, you're a
> programmer. :-) Try the tried-and-true target/action
> mechanism. Cocoa
> is a lot clearer and more direct when you don't
> consider Bindings
> (KVC/KVO/Object Controllers). Yes, you have to write glue
> code, but
> with proper design, you shouldn't have to write *that
> much* in most
> cases.
>
> Though it's just a suggestion, I think it's an
> important one to
> consider when designing a Cocoa application. How much work
> would it
> take to make Bindings work? In plenty of cases, the answer
> is "more
> than it's worth in this particular app".
>
> --
> I.S.
>
> (... who is now going off to a dark corner to lick his
> wounds - such
> horrible things he says about our precious!) ;-)
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