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Re: [SOLVED, with reservations] Re: Turn off menu highlight in outline view?
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Re: [SOLVED, with reservations] Re: Turn off menu highlight in outline view?


  • Subject: Re: [SOLVED, with reservations] Re: Turn off menu highlight in outline view?
  • From: "I. Savant" <email@hidden>
  • Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:07:07 -0400



--
I.S.



On Aug 17, 2009, at 12:30 PM, Corbin Dunn wrote:

Hopefully customization has become easier, and frequently less required (ie: the "source list" highlighting style, proper drag and drop feedback, etc). Do you have specific examples of things that are difficult to do which should be easier? I'm interested in knowing what is difficult to customize, or work with.


Fair enough.

First, for the record, I meant it when I said I meant no disrespect. AppKit as a whole is still an amazing API.

Second, customization *has* become somewhat easier over the years but I'm sad to say I feel NSTableView and NSOutlineView are very neglected in this regard (customization) than are other UI elements. It's progressing at a glacial pace.

  Third, the (short but important-to-me list):

1 - Drawing. Take a look back through the archives. This has to be the single-most-bemoaned issue. Adding a standardized source list style was great (more like this, please), but at the very least, more places to intervene are long overdue. A specific method for drawing the DnD insertion point would be a good example. The archives are full of this request but unless I failed to notice (and I admit the strong possibility as I haven't specifically checked in the last year or two), there's no supported way to do this. Plenty of ugly hacks, though. There are other examples but I'm a lazy, lazy man.

2 - Column drag and drop. It's like the poor, neglected stepchild compared to row drag and drop. Why? We don't get nearly the control that we do for rows/nodes. We also have no (easy? foreseeable? supported?) way of dragging columns outside a table. There aren't as many reasons why you'd want to drag columns between tables as there are for rows, but there are plenty.

3 - Column headers. Customizing the look is fairly easy. Customizing behavior, however, has all sorts of gotcha's, depending on your goal. This is a separate post unto itself. Again, the archives are the smoking gun (smoldering underground coal fire?).

4 - Animation. Come on, guys, you (Apple, collectively) have been pushing animation since Leopard. Animation on sort is a bit ridiculous, but how about sliding rows out of the way to make room for a drop? How about slamming them shut and flinging a locally-dragged row back to its position (or making it disappear "under" the edge of the scroll view in the direction of its original position if it's not currently visible due to a scroll)? Developers have been using hacks to perform at least "live, animated sorting" for years. I cite NewsFire as the first example I've ever encountered (let's not bring up the NewsFire author debate that raged for years on cocoadev.com, please). Columns too. Right now, the columns just kind of "pop" back and forth. I often get visually confused when reordering the columns of any app. Columns can tend to look alike, differentiated only by title. This is a *perfect* example of why at least a judicious touch of animation is sorely needed in this control. But that's not customization, merely improvement. :-)

That's all I have time for at the moment, but it's illustrative of the kind of issues I've encountered or frequently read of others encountering.

I understand this is a highly complex control. I know a lot of the "why can't we just..." pleas probably don't take this into proper account. Again, I have nothing but respect for the AppKit team, but I think it's time to focus on major renovations for these views for the next cat. That's all. :-)


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References: 
 >Turn off menu highlight in outline view? (From: Graham Cox <email@hidden>)
 >[SOLVED, with reservations] Re: Turn off menu highlight in outline view? (From: Graham Cox <email@hidden>)
 >Re: [SOLVED, with reservations] Re: Turn off menu highlight in outline view? (From: "I. Savant" <email@hidden>)
 >Re: [SOLVED, with reservations] Re: Turn off menu highlight in outline view? (From: Corbin Dunn <email@hidden>)

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