Re: Showing numpad key equivs in menu items
Re: Showing numpad key equivs in menu items
- Subject: Re: Showing numpad key equivs in menu items
- From: Steven Degutis <email@hidden>
- Date: Tue, 07 May 2013 18:53:27 -0500
That's the problem with legacy. We learn from the past, and realize
our mistakes. But sometimes we can't fix them, because users already
depend on them. Or rather, we do fix them, and anger lots of people
who need it to keep working the old way. Reminds me of
http://xkcd.com/1172/ ... "legacy: can't live with it, can't get rid
of it".
On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 6:45 PM, gweston <email@hidden> wrote:
> Steve Mills said:
>
>> Such software has already established the precedent that it needs lots and
>> lots of keyboard shortcuts. (Finale is well over 10 years old, IIRC.) Steve
>> isn't condemning users to a keyboard shortcut nightmare, he's continuing a
>> well-established though specialized UI pattern. On this point I 100% agree
>> with Steve's right to continue the tradition without molestation.
>
>
> Finally, somebody that understands. Thanks for explaining it all.
>
> Don't confuse disagreement with lack of understanding. I understood what you
> were asking perfectly. I didn't say you absolutely shouldn't do it. You
> might recall that I even made a good faith suggestion for a technique that
> might accomplish it. But I also offered a reasoned rationale for why
> carrying that forward *might* not be the best use of your efforts. You
> reacted with snide hostility to a polite and sincere attempt to help you
> make your software as good as it could be. Think about that for a bit. (And
> that goes double for Steven who claimed that making such suggestions was the
> mark of a "fanboy.")
>
>
>
>> In that case, I think Steve needs to quit whining that Apple engineers
>> aren't doing his job for him, and implement his own menu drawing for his
>> specialized case.
>
>
> It's not that Apple isn't doing my job for me, it's that they're not doing
> their own job. Carbon had this ability. They didn't re-add it in Cocoa.
> That's what I'm complaining about. Apple killed Carbon and said "use Cocoa!
> It's amazing! Convert all your apps now!" That would be a whole lot easier
> if Cocoa offered everything that Carbon did.
>
> You need to consider the possibility that Apple decided that not everything
> Carbon was able to do was legitimate to carry forward. That some of it might
> have even been fundamentally detrimental to user experience. It's among the
> most common reasons for behavior to be deprecated.
>
>
>
> Yes, if Apple comes up with better glyphs for numpad keys (and some of the
> others while they're at it), then that's all the better. Somewhere I recall
> seeing a little numpad icon beside the actual key character. Even that would
> be more obvious than a rounded rect around the character.
>
> You may be surprised to hear that I agree. Remember, I made two arguments.
> Not everyone has the keys and the glyph isn't sufficiently descriptive.
> Better glyph immediately eliminates the more problematic half of my concern.
> You could quite easily do the "little numpad icon" yourself, just like
> whatever developer created the one you remember.
>
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