Re: Thoughts on Objective-C++
Re: Thoughts on Objective-C++
- Subject: Re: Thoughts on Objective-C++
- From: Turtle Creek Software via Cocoa-dev <email@hidden>
- Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2019 19:28:30 -0500
Our app is used by remodelers and construction folks to run their
businesses- accounting, estimating, project management, billing, payroll.
It's big- kinda like FileMaker, plus QuickBooks, plus a bit of Excel, plus
a drawing window for customizing. It took about 15 programmer-years for
version 1.0, then another 5 to get it really good. It's too big, but
people need it all to run their biz.
There are a few similar apps on Windows, but we have the only one for Mac.
I don't think anyone else on Mac does payroll- which is insanely
complicated. A few thousand users. We run the TurtleSoft business with it,
plus another which is paying the bills right now. You can download our demo
and take a look, if you want. If anyone wants to see the stalled Cocoa
beta I can send it.
We are remodelers who learned to program Excel, then HyperTalk, then C++,
usually just working part-time at it. I'm sure we aren't rock stars as
programmers, but we managed to ship some decent apps. There were 2 or 3
programmers on staff for most of the 90s. Mostly just founders and
subcontractors since then.
We started the 64-bit update in 2013 and not before because construction
was hit very hard by the recession. 2008 to 2011 sales dropped 50% each
year, so it was major downsizing. We tried to subcontract the Cocoa
update, but 4 different contractors tried it, realized they grossly
underbid and gave up.
Here's a rough programmer-month breakdown for the entire 64-bit update,
spread out over 5 years:
Complete object database rewrite- 4 months + 2 months debugging
Remove PowerPlant, rewrite LArray, misc updating to 64-bit and modern C++ -
6 months
Find subcontractors, negotiate, test, etc- 4 months
Convert resources from ResEdit to modern formats- 1 month
Learn Objective-C, Cocoa and Swift- 4 months
Main window setup, files, C++ to Obj-C links, Cocoa basics- 4 months
Ditto in Visual Studio/MFC- 1 month
Redo & improve main window design in MFC & Cocoa- 3 months
Get various Excel-like tables to work with NSTableView- 6 months
Revise table data entry to use panels because tables still didn't work
right- 1 month
Redo drawing environment for customizing- 1 month (gave up, sample project
too old)
Debug mystery crashes in Cocoa- 3 months
Specialty windows & misc- 4 months (still not done)
The first 10 years were a blast-- rapid growth, excellent cash flow, lots
of travel, teaching clases, spending time with users and other developers.
Then Apple hit the wall and it was 5 years of barely hanging on. Then 5
years of excellent cash flow again. The past 10 years have just been eking
and hard work, thankfully not full-time. Hopefully we'll get a cash cow
back at some point, so it's fun again.
Casey McDermott
TurtleSoft.com
On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 3:21 PM Laurent Daudelin <email@hidden>
wrote:
> You know, I was thinking the same when Casey mentioned how long it was
> taking to convert their app to Cocoa...
>
> -Laurent.
> --
>
> On Nov 13, 2019, at 14:38, Gary L. Wade via Cocoa-dev <
> email@hidden> wrote:
>
> If it takes you that long, then you need to hire new developers rather
> than wasting your time posting complaints on an email list.
> --
> Gary L. Wade
> http://www.garywade.com/
>
> On Nov 13, 2019, at 11:32 AM, Turtle Creek Software via Cocoa-dev <
> email@hidden> wrote:
>
> We have to plan 5 or 10 years ahead, because it takes that long to create
> an app and sell it for long enough to get payback.
>
>
>
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