Re: Future of Cocoa
Re: Future of Cocoa
- Subject: Re: Future of Cocoa
- From: Dragan Milić via Cocoa-dev <email@hidden>
- Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2019 00:26:53 +0100
> čet 21.11.2019., at 23.43, Pascal Bourguignon wrote:
>
> It’s not like children not being happy.
That comment was related to “I’m leaving this place” announcement, probably
because “most of you don’t agree with what I find ‘valid concerns’ so I’m
leaving”. That’s exactly how it sounded to me.
> The Apple ecosystem implies an extraordinary maintenance load.
> Specifically, your application must provide enough revenue to pay for a
> couple of developpers only to track the changes Apple makes to the API, and
> update it on each new version of the system (which occur about yearly).
> So, count about 100,000 €/year to 200,000 €/year.
> If your application doesn’t provide this profit, then you cannot follow, and
> it will quickly be dropped from the the AppStore.
>
> Are only applications providing good revenue worth developing and worth
> having?
> Why couldn’t we have application developed once for a few users, and working
> consistently over long periods, on a stable platform?
> Currently the only solution would be to package such application in frozen
> hardware and system software, which is not practical (users would need
> different computers for each application!), and feasible (computers are not
> really buillt to last more than a few year of usage).
>
> Actually, things have changed. On Macintosh, basically an application
> developed in 1984 against the Inside Macintosh (1.0) specifications still
> worked in 1999 in the blue box with MacOS 9.1. The platform was more stable.
>
> So what can we do?
I agree with all your points. It’s not easy, i’ve never said it was. But that’s
the matter of the fact ever since 2001. I know applications made for mac in
1984 would still work in 1999. I know Win application made in 1995 would still
work in 2019 (with minor or no changes at all). Would I like it to be the same
for the modern macOS platform? I sure would! But it’s not like that and it
hasn’t been ever since Mac OS X was officially released in 2001. It’s almost 18
years now, that’s longer time span than 1984 - 99 and if anyone was working in
Mac environment for that long, one should get used to it already. There’s a
positive side of it (Apple pushing new technologies) and a negative side
(constant updating of your software, so that it just runs normally on each new
major OS update).
I don’t like it too, and often hate it, especially when some frameworks are
deprecated (and later removed) without valid replacement, just because Apple
guys think “you don’t need it and hence should not use it” (like
LSSharedFileListItemRef and related API, for example). But even then, those
deprecations, no matter how silent (not announced at WWDC
keynote/platforms-state-of-the-union) are mentioned in developer's release
notes. And only removed after a couple of next OS updates. Do you really
consider seriously developing for a certain platform without even reading major
OS update developer's release notes?
And then we come to those HUGE deprecations, such are Carbon, 32-bit and
OpenGL, which were loudly announced in both Keynotes and
platforms-state-of-the-union videos, particular developer sessions and on MANY
places outside of WWDC, in all relevant Mac (and not only Mac, but IT and
software dev in general related) web sites, documentation etc… And after years
and years of getting deprecation warnings, and OS warning you about 32-bit apps
on launch and what not, when all those are finally removed, people, who claim
to be developers for the platform, find themselves surprised?! Sorry, call me
stubborn, or dickhead, or whatever, but I just can’t take those people
seriously. And then, other people use this list for what it really is meant
for, they start posting links and advices to those who has been left behind, to
help them to update their apps to the current APIs, and in return they get more
complains and whining about the situation?
I mean, following the current thread, Objective-C (and after introduction of
SwiftUI, probably AppKit/UIKit) will be declared deprecated in, say 7 - 8 years
(just a wild guess, don’t take it seriously), and some people will ignore it
and keep their apps tied to those APIs and technologies and when
ObjC/AppKit/UIKit are finally removed in, like, 15 - 16 years, they will
probably find themselves surprised (again).
-- Dragan
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