Re: colorsync-users digest, Vol 1 #4 - 16 msgs
Re: colorsync-users digest, Vol 1 #4 - 16 msgs
- Subject: Re: colorsync-users digest, Vol 1 #4 - 16 msgs
- From: Frank Lee <email@hidden>
- Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 14:20:30 -0500
- Organization: Broadcast Media I.S.
Why are you repeatedly sending me this message?
Frank Lee
email@hidden wrote:
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:
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>
1. Re: New Adobe profiles ( was: PrintOpen profiles) (email@hidden)
>
2. Re: Interpolating colors (email@hidden)
>
3. Input Profiles & Rendering Intent (Raz Manascherov)
>
4. Ink pooling with Monoco Color (options digital color)
>
5. Re: New Adobe profiles ( was: PrintOpen profiles) (Bruce Fraser)
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6. colorsync-users digest, Vol 1 #3 - 3 msgs ( -Reply) (Jeff Fentum)
>
7. Re: Epson 9000 and Visual Edge (joe borne)
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8. Re: EFI RIP Quirks (Darrian Young)
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9. Re: Epson 2000P (email@hidden)
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10. Epson 5000 (Gerard NIEMETZKY)
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11. Re: Ink pooling with Monoco Color (email@hidden)
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12. Re: Interpolating colors (Bruce J. Lindbloom)
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13. Re: Gretag iQueue (Darrian Young)
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14. Re: Ink pooling with Monoco Color (jim rich)
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15. Re: Epson 5000 (Darrian Young)
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16. Here we go again (Zale)
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>
--__--__--
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Message: 1
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From: email@hidden
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Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:36:43 EST
>
Subject: Re: New Adobe profiles ( was: PrintOpen profiles)
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To: email@hidden, email@hidden
>
>
In a message dated 10/28/00 10:07:49 AM, email@hidden writes:
>
>
> Considering the market dominance of Adobe does anyone else think these
>
>new
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>PS 6 profiles will become de facto standards, allowing content creators
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>to
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>use them as unofficial printing standards for overseas printing like we
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>use
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>SWOP for domestic magazines?
>
>
>
This issue came up when the first version of the profiles appeared, and the
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problems that arose was messy and expensive. This time around they should
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indeed be capable of use as industry standards, except that they are not
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necessarily available for free distribution. This is a bit awkward, since any
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image tagged for one of these spaces can be used to extract the profile,
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which is then available for other uses. So it is virtually imposible for the
>
profiles not be end up broadly available in a practical sense.
>
>
But Adobe has not made it clear if it is planning on restricting distribution
>
of the profiles or not. It would be a very nice gesture on their part if they
>
did in fact make them publicly available for download on their website, and
>
specify that they were available for free distribution if accompanied with
>
their read-me file explaining the licensing terms. It would be a step forward
>
for ICC based workflows.
>
>
C. David Tobie
>
Design Cooperative
>
email@hidden
>
>
--__--__--
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Message: 2
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From: email@hidden
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Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 17:42:28 EST
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Subject: Re: Interpolating colors
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To: email@hidden, email@hidden
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CC: email@hidden
>
>
In a message dated 10/28/00 12:22:55 PM, email@hidden writes:
>
>
>> > LAB defines color as a cubic box. A real color space is shaped more
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>like a
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>> > potato.
>
>
>
>CIELAB doesn't really define color as a box, a potato or any other
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>shape, whether of the geometric or vegetable persuasion. It's the
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>encoding space that is given a box shape because it happens to be
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>convenient for packing potatoes (or media gamuts) in.
>
>
Very well, reword that "LAB encodes color as a cubic box..."
>
>
C. David Tobie
>
Design Cooperative
>
email@hidden
>
>
--__--__--
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>
Message: 3
>
From: Raz Manascherov <email@hidden>
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To: "'email@hidden'"
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<email@hidden>
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Subject: Input Profiles & Rendering Intent
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Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:22:37 +0200
>
>
Hi,
>
>
What is the need of Rendering Intent in Input Profile.
>
>
Thanks
>
Raz M.
>
>
--__--__--
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Message: 4
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Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 02:09:43 +0800
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Subject: Ink pooling with Monoco Color
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From: options digital color <email@hidden>
>
To: <email@hidden>
>
>
We have spent the weekend trying to profile our Epson 9000 printer with a
>
Visual Edge Rip. We borrowed the Monoco Software and DTP-41 and started in
>
on Friday nite. here we are on Sunday afternoon with absolutely nothing
>
useable. Any help would be appreciated. We were able to generate a
>
linearization and measurements accurately. When we send the color patches to
>
the printer, it starts pooling (bleeding) as soon as it hits the darker
>
colors. Obviously, there is too much ink going down but there is no control
>
on the printer to reduce the inks. Our rip letes us apply an ink reduction
>
but it does not appear to do so in any kind of linear or global strategy so
>
we are leary of using this to develop an icc profile. Any suggestions with
>
this ink pooling issue?
>
>
--__--__--
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>
Message: 5
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Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 18:23:55 -0700
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To: email@hidden, email@hidden,
>
email@hidden
>
From: email@hidden (Bruce Fraser)
>
Subject: Re: New Adobe profiles ( was: PrintOpen profiles)
>
>
At 5:36 PM -0500 10/29/00, email@hidden wrote:
>
>
>
>But Adobe has not made it clear if it is planning on restricting distribution
>
>of the profiles or not. It would be a very nice gesture on their part if they
>
>did in fact make them publicly available for download on their website, and
>
>specify that they were available for free distribution if accompanied with
>
>their read-me file explaining the licensing terms. It would be a step forward
>
>for ICC based workflows.
>
>
All the people at Adobe I've asked about it are quite unequivocal
>
about having zero interest in restricting use or distribution of
>
these profiles. But yes, it would be nice to have it in writing...
>
>
Bruce
>
--
>
email@hidden
>
>
--__--__--
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Message: 6
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Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:24:48 -0500
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From: "Jeff Fentum" <email@hidden>
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Reply-To: email@hidden
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To: <email@hidden>
>
Subject: colorsync-users digest, Vol 1 #3 - 3 msgs ( -Reply)
>
>
Your message submitted to email@hidden has been forwarded to a new e-mail account, email@hidden
>
>
In order to assure a speedy response, please send your messages for Jeff Fentum to email@hidden
>
>
Thank You!
>
>
--__--__--
>
>
Message: 7
>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 01:09:41 -0500
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Subject: Re: Epson 9000 and Visual Edge
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From: "joe borne" <email@hidden>
>
To: email@hidden
>
>
>> May I suggest that you look into a New Rip available from Praxisoft called
>
>> the Mach 1. It has some very nice features as a RIP and the most attractive
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>> thing is that a Colour Management Company has created it. It is a very
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>> straightforward process to linearize and calibrate the system and the
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>> quality we have seen has been outstanding. Our version of the Rip is
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>> capable of setting up proof queues to the Epson, Roland, Hewlett Packard,
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>> Scitex IRIS and ColorSpan INKJET systems.
>
>
>
> Could you explain how it prints to an Iris? Or does it just rip a CT or
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> IR file to disk and have that exposed by the iris software?
>
>
The RIP converts any file format (including postscript) into a raster format
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that can be sent directly to the device (a device native format). It then
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drives the device directly.
>
>
I have used this RIP and I can say that it is bar none the best I have seen
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so far in image quality.
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--
>
Joe Borne
>
Color Consultant
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(859) 282-0393
>
>
--__--__--
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Message: 8
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Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:52:34 +0100
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Subject: Re: EFI RIP Quirks
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From: Darrian Young <email@hidden>
>
To: <email@hidden>
>
>
Jeff Harmon wrote:
>
>
>
> Thanks for the advice about setting up a simulation with EFI's RIP on the
>
> Epson 5000. Your instructions are what I had already done. I was asking
>
> whether I needed to select "PostScript Color Matching" additionally.
>
>
No, it is not necessar. Each may have his own theory regarding this, but I
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always leave the color options to Color/Greys in the Color Matching dialog
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box. This way you know that there are not other factors influencing (more
>
or less) your color management apart from what you select in the printer
>
specific options.
>
>
>
> Also, am I to safely presume that "Color Matching- Photo" means "relative
>
> colorimetric" and "Photographic" means "perceptual"? How does "Color
>
> Matching - Solid" relate to the ICC spec?
>
>
Color Matching Solid refers to absolute colorimentric, Color Matching
>
Photographic refers to relative colorimetric. Photographic is perceptual.
>
There may be a slight variation in terms as I am translating from the
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Spanish version. You can find a pretty good explanation of everything in
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the Fiery color manual in the second chapter.
>
>
Regards.
>
--
>
Darrian Young
>
Microgestio Valencia
>
>
--__--__--
>
>
Message: 9
>
From: email@hidden
>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 08:52:39 EST
>
Subject: Re: Epson 2000P
>
To: email@hidden, email@hidden, email@hidden,
>
email@hidden
>
>
Ralph,
>
>
In a message dated 10/23/00 3:14:14 PM, you write:
>
>
<< I currently use ColorBlind MatchBox. Does anyone have any experience using
>
this with the 2000P? >>
>
>
Sorry for the late reply, I have been out of the country.
>
>
Yes, I used CBMB and after six rounds of tuning on the semi-gloss made a
>
respectable profile, although tuning to perfectly neutralize the neutrals is
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virtually impossible considering the metamerism problem. Trying to profile
>
the matte paper was somewhat trying. On a whim, I ordered one of Jon Cone's
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profiles for the semi-gloss (cost $49.95) and it was great. I subsequently
>
ordered his profile for the matte paper and it to was exceptional...it seems
>
that the 2000P's must be rather consistent across the board. Afterwards I
>
wondered why I spent so much time trying to profile this machine when for
>
$100.00 Cone's profiles were so good.
>
>
I hope this helps...
>
>
Ed Foster, Jr.
>
Photojournalist
>
>
--__--__--
>
>
Message: 10
>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:42:58 -0500
>
Subject: Epson 5000
>
From: Gerard NIEMETZKY <email@hidden>
>
To: <email@hidden>
>
>
> What RIP should we use with the Epson 5000 as a proofer in a
>
> color managed workflow, to proof prints converted RGB-->CMYK using
>
> a profile made with MonacoSystem for our proprietary printing process?
>
>
>
> Computers= Macs G3 and G4
>
> CMS= Monaco Profiler
>
> Scanner= Scitex Smartscan Supreme with Oxygen
>
> Spectro= Xrite DTP41
>
> Image Setter= Dolev800
>
> Printing process= 4 colors pigment printing process
>
>
>
> Thank you for your help
>
>
>
> Regards
>
--
>
Gerard Niemetzky
>
http://www.atxstudio.com
>
>
--__--__--
>
>
Message: 11
>
From: email@hidden
>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:00:25 EST
>
Subject: Re: Ink pooling with Monoco Color
>
To: email@hidden, email@hidden
>
>
In a message dated 10/29/00 9:03:42 PM, email@hidden writes:
>
>
>We have spent the weekend trying to profile our Epson 9000 printer with
>
>a
>
>Visual Edge Rip. We borrowed the Monoco Software and DTP-41 and started
>
>in
>
>on Friday nite. here we are on Sunday afternoon with absolutely nothing
>
>useable. Any help would be appreciated. We were able to generate a
>
>linearization and measurements accurately. When we send the color patches
>
>to
>
>the printer, it starts pooling (bleeding) as soon as it hits the darker
>
>colors. Obviously, there is too much ink going down but there is no control
>
>on the printer to reduce the inks. Our rip letes us apply an ink reduction
>
>but it does not appear to do so in any kind of linear or global strategy
>
>so
>
>we are leary of using this to develop an icc profile. Any suggestions with
>
>this ink pooling issue?
>
>
Monaco Proof is supplied with a reduced ink target set for such situations,
>
and Monaco Profiler was supposed to have variable ink capacity for targets,
>
though I can't confirm that this feature was in the shipping version. You may
>
be using an older piece of software, and have to apply your ink limiting
>
elsewhere... but be sure that its someplace available later, to use in
>
conjunction with the profiles created through it.
>
>
C. David Tobie
>
Design Cooperative
>
email@hidden
>
>
--__--__--
>
>
Message: 12
>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:30:38 -0600
>
Subject: Re: Interpolating colors
>
From: "Bruce J. Lindbloom" <email@hidden>
>
To: ColorSync User List <email@hidden>
>
CC: <email@hidden>
>
>
Phil Green wrote:
>
> CIELAB doesn't really define color as a box, a potato or any other
>
> shape, whether of the geometric or vegetable persuasion. It's the
>
> encoding space that is given a box shape because it happens to be
>
> convenient for packing potatoes (or media gamuts) in.
>
>
Nevertheless, I thought David Tobie's analogy was a very good one, although
>
a more discriminating observer might have chosen the rutabaga over the
>
potato.
>
>
Or maybe I'm just jealous because your name's a color and mine's not! ;-)
>
--
>
Bruce J. Lindbloom, Pictographics Intl. Corp.
>
>
--__--__--
>
>
Message: 13
>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 18:53:12 +0100
>
Subject: Re: Gretag iQueue
>
From: Darrian Young <email@hidden>
>
To: <email@hidden>
>
>
> Kevin Brown wrote,
>
>
> Is anyone using the new Gretag Macbeth iQueue and iCSync software?
>
>
>
If anyone is, it would be a beta as it is still not available - unless
>
something changed this last week. I saw in Gretag-Macbeth this last summer
>
and it had a nice interface, but last word was that it still is not ready.
>
>
Regards.
>
>
--
>
Darrian Young
>
Microgestio Valencia
>
>
--__--__--
>
>
Message: 14
>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 13:21:25 -0500
>
To: email@hidden
>
From: jim rich <email@hidden>
>
Subject: Re: Ink pooling with Monoco Color
>
>
C. David Tobie said:
>
>
><Monaco Proof is supplied with a reduced ink target set for such situations,
>
>and Monaco Profiler was supposed to have variable ink capacity for targets,
>
>though I can't confirm that this feature was in the shipping version. You may
>
>be using an older piece of software, and have to apply your ink limiting
>
>elsewhere... but be sure that its someplace available later, to use in
>
>conjunction with the profiles created through it.>
>
>
>
>
>
I can confirm this feature for ink reduction in Monaco. It has been
>
available for sometime in Proof and Profiler.
>
>
Best Regards
>
>
Jim Rich
>
>
Rich & Associates, LLC
>
P.O. Box 70882
>
Chevy Chase MD 20813
>
>
301-652-7266
>
301-652-8665 fax
>
email:email@hidden
>
>
http://www.ecolortools.com
>
>
http://www.photoshopfocus.com
>
>
--__--__--
>
>
Message: 15
>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 19:28:47 +0100
>
Subject: Re: Epson 5000
>
From: Darrian Young <email@hidden>
>
To: <email@hidden>
>
>
> Gerard NIEMETZKY wrote:
>
>
>
>> What RIP should we use with the Epson 5000 as a proofer in a
>
>> color managed workflow, to proof prints converted RGB-->CMYK using
>
>> a profile made with MonacoSystem for our proprietary printing process?
>
>>
>
>> Computers= Macs G3 and G4
>
>> CMS= Monaco Profiler
>
>> Scanner= Scitex Smartscan Supreme with Oxygen
>
>> Spectro= Xrite DTP41
>
>> Image Setter= Dolev800
>
>> Printing process= 4 colors pigment printing process
>
>>
>
I would recommend Colorproof from GMG. To linearize the RIP you can use
>
your DTP41 as the RIP prints out its own patches for calibration and
>
connects directly to the spectrophotometer. It also supports TIFF-IT,
>
Scitex CT/LW, Postscript, as well as other formats. It also does nesting.
>
The same RIP can also drive an IRIS, if you have one, as I see you have a
>
number of Scitex devices. If you use it to drive two printers, you can set
>
the software to linearize until yo achieve 1 delta difference between the
>
two. ICC compatibility is very good, treating linework and CTs differently,
>
and you can also set different profile parameters to different elements in
>
the same print - eg. one image have a profile setting and the image next to
>
it have another. One of its features that I have not seen elsewhere (not to
>
say that it is the only one) is that it has a database of spot colors. You
>
can enter spot colors manually or via the spectrophotometer and create
>
linearization curves for each color. Then, if you use the same name of the
>
color in your layout application, it will be substituted in the RIP. There
>
are other features but you can take a look at www.colorproof.de. One thing
>
I do have to add is that it is a bit expensive - but it works.
>
>
Regards.
>
>
--
>
Darrian Young
>
Microgestio Valencia
>
>
--__--__--
>
>
Message: 16
>
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 10:01:59 -0800
>
From: Zale <email@hidden>
>
Subject: Here we go again
>
To: email@hidden
>
>
In watching this list I have seen much conversation regarding who likes what
>
profile creator to use as well as what rip is the best. Unfortunately, not
>
much has focused on exactly what I am looking for. While I seem to have
>
narrowed my focus to the iprofile bundle, I am still wracked with doubt
>
having been burnt(?) by my purchase of the CBMB. At that time it seemed like
>
the way to go - but since that purchase(18 months ago) the landscape has
>
shifted to other areas, thus my Spectrolino choice. I am really not
>
interested in constantly purchasing software and hardware but in finding a
>
quality product and a reputable vendor who should be around long enough for
>
me to get past the learning curve. Like most of you our office is littered
>
with products purchased which were good ideas with either bad
>
implementations or excessive marketing hype. I'd love to end that cycle but
>
I am realistic.
>
I am also purchasing an Epson 7500 printer and an NT server to act as the
>
rip. I am more in the dark here as there is not a lot of activity
>
(conversation) that I am aware of regarding rips. Sales people have said
>
that Best is the way to go with CGI's O.R.I.S coming up frequently. How
>
(where) do I cut through the hype and get solid information? Do any of you
>
have relevant experiences that you are willing to share?
>
We are a photoare using 3+ different separators, 6+ printers and a myriad of magazines. So
>
we need to "tune" in to these vendors as best as is possible to keep
>
producing a quality product. Up to this point CDMB has not really failed us
>
- but we feel that we need more abilities in reading data, creating,
>
altering and automating profiles than we presently have.
>
My question is this - before I commit to another $20m+ - am I looking for
>
the right software/equipment in both the profiling aspect as well as the
>
rips? Is there any place to find direct comparisons? And can any one give
>
me solid advice on how to cut through the marketing hype and narrow this
>
search down? My biggest problem with the rips is SERVICE - the two I'm
>
looking at are not supported as well as I would like for the comfort level I
>
need. Money is always important but quality will always makes the
>
difference.
>
I would appreciate any help possible.
>
>
Thanks
>
>
--__--__--
>
>
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>
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>
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>
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>
>
End of colorsync-users Digest