Re: Hexachrome, which train are you on?
Re: Hexachrome, which train are you on?
- Subject: Re: Hexachrome, which train are you on?
- From: email@hidden
- Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:18:17 EDT
In a message dated 4/29/02 8:39:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
email@hidden writes:
>
>
> You must have Roland if printing CMYKOG, right?
>
>> Or are you using a DisplayMaker XII or something similar?
>
>
>
> C M Y K O G, count them. Six channels. Any Epson since the 3000 is
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capable of
>
> that.
>
>
I didn't realize you could purchase Orange and Green for any Epson printer.
Epson would certainly prefer that you remain ignorant of the fact... but I've
done it with assorted models.
>
By the way you do know that Hexachrome Cyan etc. is not the same as inkjet
>
cyan -- radically different.
Yes, the Hexachrome CMYK primaries are, *suprise*, quite similar to inkjet
CMYK primaries. Some printers use the Hex CMYK inks even without the OG inks
for enlarged gamut on a four tower press.
I didn't know that Hexachrome inks were
>
available for the inexpensive Epsons.
They are not Hexachrome inks unless they are licensed from Pantone. I stated
CMYKOG inks.
Does Pantone know this? They should if
>
you are getting good results with your orange and green combination.
It was at Pantone's request that I began investigating affordable Hexachrome
workflows. They are certainly aware of the various issues being covered here.
>
>
>
>> I am interested in how you are proofing CMYKOG with limited gamut CMYK or
>
>> CcMmYK ink set-ups?
You stated that a bit backwards; I'm proofing limited gamut PressCMYKOG on
wide gamut CMYK or CcMmYK inkjets. For wide gamut PressCMYKOG, CMYKOG inkjet
inks are needed, or certain colors cannot be matched. But Hexachrome need not
be reserved for top price jobs on premium coated papers, it can be used to
extend the color range on low cost papers, lowering the psper cost for long
runs, or brightening newsprint and other uncoated print jobs.Its this type of
lower cost Hexachrome job that is in the most need of affordable proofing
solutions.
>
>
>
> Have you done gamut comparisons for PressHexachrome, and Inkjet CMYK? Or
>
to
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> put it in common sense terms: have you run into many colors in photographs
>
> that were beyond the gamut of a dye inkjet on glossy stock? The only other
>
> thing to hit is spot colors, which is why I said the choice is between
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the OG
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> for Pantones, or the Light C&M for photo smoothness.
>
>
Many times I run into situations were the inkjet printer can't print colors
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of the source file. If you have BetterLight or PhaseOne scanning camera you
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can easily record colors that outside of Epson printer/ink combination.
Yes, and outside press expectations as well. Lets simplify life and say that
images bound for press need not contain color beyond AdobeRGB. Unless they
are bound for Hexachrome, then they won't manage to come close even to that.
>
I also have built custom press Hexachrome ICC profiles. The sheet fed
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Heidelberg MO(?) press with Hexachrome inks produced some of the best
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looking output I have laid eyes on for a press.
For a press... but not that different than an Epson inkjet. And this is the
premium situation again, not the type of daily work Hexachrome I would
recommend CMYK inks for proofing.
Not sure why your
>
>
PressHexachrome ICC profile has a color gamut within inkjet CMYK color gamut
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but if does -- cool!
Because not all presses are sheetfed, running on premium coated stock... but
I'm beginning to repeat myself.
>
>
>
>> True, not every image will benefit from the Hexachrome but how are you
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>> determining if the image will benefit using Hexachrome process. If the
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>> image
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>> won't benefit from Hexachrome printing then why not just use CMYK instead
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>> of
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>> trying to simulate six colors on a 4 color device?
>
>
>
> You appear to be thinking in terms of final output to an inkjet. For press
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> proofing the very limited gamut of PressCMYK means that many images will
>
> suffer, and that many Pantone colors cannot be accurately matched. So
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> Hexachrome has significant value for image gamut, and for avoiding extra
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> color plates to hit Pantones that CMYK can't reach. With the proofer, your
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> only job is to match the range of the Hex Press... or the parts of it that
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> are important for a given job.
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>>
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>>> The "something"
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>>> that you are missing is that PressHexachrome is needed because PressCMYK
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>> is
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>>> quite a limited gamut... for inkjets with their wider gamut the choice
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>> exists
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>>> of getting a few more of the Pantone colors to proof accurately by using
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>> OG,
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>>> or to get the smoother images by using the light C&M... few images
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actually
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>>> need the OG for gamut enlargement. If you want both at once, then yes,
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>> an
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>>> eight color device is your only choice.
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>>
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>> I still don't understand how you can simulate six colors on a 4 color
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>> device. The contract proofers that are certified by Pantone use Hifi 4/C
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>> sheets to achieve a color gamut as large as the Hexachrome process.
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Inkjet
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>> printers don't have a gamut as large as Hexachrome. If they did then why
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>> bother with the Hexachrome anyways?
>
>
>
> PressHexachrome! Inkjets can being used to proof the PressHexachrome gamut
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> with whatever colors you choose to run in them... the fact that a given
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job
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> (say a newsprint webpress run of advertising material) is within the
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gamut of
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> a CMYK inkjet on a particular stock does not mean that it is within the
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gamut
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> of a CMYK web press on newsprint.
>
>
Huh? CMYK web press on newsprint has a wider gamut than the inkjet? You are
>
losing me here.
Simply put, when PressHexachrome is small enough, InkJetCMYK is an acceptable
proofing gamut... when its not, use orange and green inks.
>
>
So you could proof that job in its totality
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> on a CMYK or CcMmYK inkjet, and print it in PressHexachrome for the added
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> color gamut that offers on press, to the otherwise weak color range of a
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> web/newsprint job. If you are talking about a cut sheet coated Hexachrome
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> job, with special wide gamut color images or lots of brilliant vector
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colors,
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> then using a CMYKOG inkset in you inkjet would be appropriate for proofing
>
> that job.
>
>
Now you suggest printing PressHexachrome for more color vibrancy but the
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inkjet can simulate the press? I am not following your thinking. I am
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confused.
Indeed... read it through again.
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>
< snip da' rest >
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I hope all are enjoying this thread!
>
I've not heard many voices chiming in here... I'm not sure we have a rapt
audience.
C David Tobie
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