Re: ImagePrint 5
Re: ImagePrint 5
- Subject: Re: ImagePrint 5
- From: neil snape <email@hidden>
- Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 17:32:53 +0200
on 15/09/2002 15:22, Cris Daniels at email@hidden wrote:
>
> Yes but can't you get good results just using the Epson rgb driver?
>
>
Uh... How many times do I have to read on this list people trashing the Epson
>
driver, how difficult it is to profile, tonal breaks in shadows. If this RIP
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addresses these issues than that is whole point here, "good results" are not
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good enough in many cases. The Epson driver will always be a series of
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compromises, a printer like the 1270 is made to print pictures well, and
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because most people are not color managed the printer has nice little modes
Snip> So this will be a no the Epson driver cannot give good results on
certain printers, with certain ink sets. As I've got a very old 1200 which
you should know is dye based, and the Epson driver produces fine prints with
great gamut , that could never be reached with the 1270 inks. This wasn't a
good printer, even though I had regretfully recommended it to many being
overzealous on the advent of pigmented inks.
>
>
There are two ways to evaluate a product in this industry, by what it actually
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does, and by what is says it will do. I am from the camp that the proof is in
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the pudding, how many technologies or applications have come out that simply
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do not live up to their hype ?... way too many in this industry. Whether it is
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broken color management, bugs, compatibility issues, operating system support,
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it is pretty rare to find products that do it all right (with quality) at a
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great price. If nothing else, at least this program does whats advertised and
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at a very fair price.
Many developers would agree that even with the very best intentions all
combinations can only be put to test when the apps hit the market. If
something as complicated as a Postscript rip is , can be released without
bugs, then that'll be quite a feat meriting an award. Most wouldn't think
that would be possible , but if you say it is then great.
>
How can ImagePrint work acceptably with RGB profiles? All I can say is that
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the results speak for themselves. I cannot find a single profiler that hits
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the gamut of Colorbyte's profiler and ImagePrint combo. Obviously their
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profiler is quite good, the results are at least as good as what I've achieved
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with Monaco Profiler, PMP 4.1, HPO, Praxisoft, or Colorvision. I can profile
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my printers and achieve a degree of color accuracy and print quality that
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would take much longer using CMYK profiles, and I can bet the farm that I
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won't see any dot in my highlights. Of course I could generate a zillion CMYK
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profiles, see which looks best (TAC, black generation, etc..) and still find
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that I get better results profiling like Colorbyte recommends. I won't try to
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complicate my life any more than other vendors already do, if they say this is
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how it works best, I'm all ears.
Sounds promising. Best not compare other printers and profiling techniques
though other than visually. The goals must be different for people in
prepress. For art printing it could be that this is fine, even a very good
neutral if it's using spectral engine conversions. As Graeme Gill said good
software to drive the hardware is essential. You're saying that this is the
case for the 7600 Epson. That's good to know. The new printers are
wonderful. I was able to use one yesterday. The nature of the UltraChrome
inks takes away most of the problems that either older Epson's or even other
inkjets may have. It's my first impression that this printer works well with
other third party rips very well, even for dot for dot screen proofing. In
any case there are already quite a few choices that give good results, in
rgb as ImagePrint and in CMYK by others.
>
Are the prints better than anything else I've tried? yes, and in every way.
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Does their RIP and profiler approach the table just like the other guys do?
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no, and why should it matter if these are the results. As I mentioned
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previously why is it presumed that how its been done in the past is the best
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way to handle things? I meet people all the time that are cluess about CMYK,
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they should be in an RGB workflow anyway.
This can be said in both ways. This list and the developers who work so hard
to bring this independent CM forward have given so much and the education is
the part only now catching up. Sometimes there are some off track
implementations that negate the openness of ICC CM yet it's really in our
interest to keep it open and not proprietary.
>
I don't have any knowledge about how their profiler works ( in a theory)
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except that they've spent quite a bit of time on it and it works with spectral
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data. It is beyond me why every profiler isn't doing this already. The
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Colorbyte perceptual tables are fabulous. The profiles generated are ICC
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compliant, they are not built for a proprietary workflow so to speak.
You didn't mention ColorOpen in your list. HDM insisted since the beginning
of Colorsync 2,0 that indeed the perceptual tables were the important
forward conversion. Very nice. Gretag PM 4,1 has some very clever ideas
behind perceptual rendering builds. The better the inkjets become the better
the use for perceptual. For proofing though if the paper is good and the ink
set is right, it's viable to go through Colorimetric or Absolute
>
The B+W side of ImagePrint is genius, my biggest problem is restraining myself
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from tining every B+W image I have in 10 different shades. From my past
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experience with B+W printing, you cannot rely on an ICC profile alone to
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handle grey balancing to this extent, I'm not sure how you'd even come close
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to these results with any other software.
Is a demo of ImagePrint available at Colorbyte?
The new Epson's have a very good grey balance and should have a decent
balance in ICC profiles or better as you see with spectral conversions. This
according to most is where spectral shines. That and pastels and or
illuminat metameric samples. Since it's new to us on the users side, if
someone could pitch in here and tell us exactly what we can expect now, and
in the future releases of spectral matching transformations.
Neil Snape email@hidden
http://mapage.noos.fr/nsnape
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| References: | |
| | >ImagePrint 5 (From: "Cris Daniels" <email@hidden>) |