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Re: untagged RGB data
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Re: untagged RGB data


  • Subject: Re: untagged RGB data
  • From: John Zimmerer <email@hidden>
  • Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2003 21:19:57 -0800

The Generic CMYK Profile is based on SWOP TR001, probably the CMYK equivalent to sRGB, so it's not such a bad default.

It's not at all a bad default. But there are other spaces, and assuming source profile for CMYK is something we will be living with for a while. And many regularly used CMYK spaces exist that are nothing like TR 001. Assumed profile workflows for CMYK is something we will have to live with for years to come, and because of this a user selectable option for what to assume as the source profile I think is a good idea, even though TR001 as a default is also a good idea. And vastly superior to the situation we had on OS 9.

So for now we'll stick with one profile for untagged data at the system level.

I'm not sure I buy the need for "OS working spaces", since I truly believe all data should be tagged. And ultimately, this is the domain of the user space applications (including AppleScript and sips), since they manipulate color directly. The OS should simply render source color accurately, and have a single definition (across workflows and continents) of how untagged source data is treated, per color space.

There are numerous problems with tagging CMYK images because it's too easy for tagged images to get repurposed by today's applications when going to a destination with imperfect registration. Black only text and drop shadows turn into four color. Two color 9pt text becomes 3 or 4 color. It's a disaster on these kinds of devices.

Frankly, not knowing how CMYK was generated has more problems. At least having the profile embedded gives the recipient a shot at knowing whether the file in its current state is appropriate for the given workflow, and also provides a starting point for creating a device link profile (after extracting the embedded profile, of course). The profile isn't to blame for poorly designed workflows.

CMYK profiles are much larger than RGB tags. For people to have to tag hundreds or thousands of images is an unnecessary workflow in the vast majority of cases. It unnecessarily makes for larger files and rapidly gets to the point where you are pushing gigabytes of redundant and impertinent data over networks, and onto storage. Apple is in a unique position, technologically, to address this problem with metadata and networking - but that's a whole separate discussion.

CMYK profiles don't have to be large, they can be 500K or less. Large profiles can be downsampled, unnecessary tags can be stripped. In dealing with files that start at 16-bit then get separated to CMYK, I don't think 500K is too high a price to pay to insure the file is properly treated further down the workflow. However, if you prefer not to embed profiles, in Panther you can use Quartz Filters to assign default RGB, Gray and CMYK profiles as source when printing and saving as PDF.

The bottom line is that saying all CMYK data should be tagged is not at all realistic.

I guess it depends on your available storage, your network, and your workflow.

I agree that all RGB data needs to be tagged. And even grayscale data should be tagged. But CMYK is different, and it needs to be treated differently too.

The Quartz Filters let you have your cake and eat it, too.

JZ
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  • Follow-Ups:
    • Re: untagged RGB data
      • From: Chris Murphy <email@hidden>
References: 
 >Re: untagged RGB data (From: Roberto Michelena <email@hidden>)
 >Re: untagged RGB data (From: John Zimmerer <email@hidden>)
 >Re: untagged RGB data (From: Chris Murphy <email@hidden>)
 >Re: untagged RGB data (From: John Zimmerer <email@hidden>)
 >Re: untagged RGB data (From: Chris Murphy <email@hidden>)

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