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Re: Inadequate ColorSync support.
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Re: Inadequate ColorSync support.


  • Subject: Re: Inadequate ColorSync support.
  • From: Pete Carter <email@hidden>
  • Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 00:03:17 +0000

Interesting post John, Thanks.

some more info there to compile the 'OS X ColorSync User Guide FAQ' !!

Things are becoming gradually clearer....?

Pete




on 19/11/03 10:29 pm, John Fieber at email@hidden wrote:

> On Nov 19, 2003, at 2:34 PM, Armand Rosenberg wrote:
>
>> Sounds like you are confused as to how to apply printer profiles in
>> PS. I don't recall at what version the printer profiles started
>> working right (it was long ago) but as of v.7 "convert to profile"
>> works fine for printing under both 9 and X.
>
> Is this different in any way then specifying the printer profile in the
> "print space" setting of the print-with-preview dialog?
>
>> There is always room for improvement, but to say or imply that
>> printing is currently broken in PS on the Mac is entirely inaccurate.
>
> Look at Pete Carter's original posting. He pointed out that the PS
> printing method you describe (convert to output profile, select "no
> color management" in the driver) is the only reliably way to print. I
> don't think I said anything to refute that. I certainly didn't intend
> to. But just because there is a way to print accurately doesn't mean
> there are not some problems. In trying to figure out some puzzing
> behaviors, I've spent a bunch of time digging into the MacOS X printing
> system and was just sharing some of what I'd found.
>
> Also to be clear, the topic has to do specifically with Inkjet printers
> using Tioga style drivers.
>
> What I see as broken is:
>
> (a) The design of the MacOS X printing system has a pretty clear vision
> of color management in printing: the application passes off CORRECTLY
> tagged PDF spool files. The print system and the driver then negotiate
> rasterization and color management. The system does NOT have appear to
> have a provision for applications that want complete control of their
> own color management.
>
> (b) Many Tioga drivers implement a hack they call "no color management"
> to solve problem (a), but it isn't reliable.
>
> (c) Photoshop relies exclusively on hack (b) for printing. Because it
> refuses to correctly tag the raster data, a failure of (b) or the
> absence of (b) in a particular printer driver guarantee incorrect
> output in ALL cases.
>
> (d) But hack (b) requires data being tagged as Generic RGB, which will
> usually be an incorrect tagging.
>
> (e) There is no officially sanctioned way for the user to *reliably*
> control any aspects of the conversion, namely profile selection. You
> can twiddle things with the ColorSync utility, but the driver has the
> final say. From reading this list, there appear to be a number of
> drivers that foil users attempts in this way.
>
> (f) Assorted other "ColorSync" aware applications I've tried are
> generating incorrectly tagged PDF files as well which leads me to
> believe that Apple has really not made it clear to developers how color
> management in MacOS X printing works. Specifically, a "What you have
> to do in your (Carbon | Cocoa) application to get correct colors when
> printing". I've seen both Carbon and Cocoa applications get it wrong.
>
> (g) Printer manufacturers may just be stubborn about relinquishing
> total control for fear that it will generate a support load. Witness
> Canon's "ColorSync isn't supported" response to my queries.
>
>
> The result of these problems is user interface confusion that creates
> lots of opportunities for error. These are the second tier problems I
> see:
>
> (h) The driver option for "no color management" is misleading because
> it simply doesn't have that effect except in very particular
> circumstances that are far from obvious, even to a sophisticated user.
>
> (i) For applications providing their own color management, there are
> two interfaces for configuring color management and only particular
> combinations of settings work. The two interfaces need to be mutually
> exclusive in the user interface. If the application is doing the color
> management, the option shouldn't even be available in the driver.
>
> (j) It should be quite simple for an application like Photoshop to
> either take over all printing color management, or do it Apple style.
> All it would take is correct tagging of the PDF data. As it stands in
> PS7, only Photoshop color management works, provided the driver
> co-conspires to evade conversion in the PDF rasterizer.
>
> So, in summary, I think the lack of a way for an application to bypass
> print system color management and the resulting "no color adjustment"
> hack is a substantial problems that generates a variety of other
> problems. There is a need for some applications to do their own stuff.
> So, in addition to adding an officially sanctioned ColorSync bypass
> method for applications, which disables the interface elements in the
> Print panel/panes, I think this would make plenty of people happy:
>
> (k) A more standard print panel the user to select a per-job
> parameters. It would have a drop down menu with something like:
>
> Auto (driver decides)
> None (disable color management, REALLY)
> list of installed profiles
> ...
> "Other..."
>
> An option to select rendering intent would be the icing on the cake. I
> got excited about the new "ColorSync" panel in the print dialog in
> Panther, but I'm still puzzling through how it works...it doesn't seem
> to work like I thought it might.
>
> -john
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 >Re: Inadequate ColorSync support. (From: John Fieber <email@hidden>)

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