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Re: "Proper Gamut Mapping"
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Re: "Proper Gamut Mapping"


  • Subject: Re: "Proper Gamut Mapping"
  • From: Jan-Peter Homann <email@hidden>
  • Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 10:40:49 +0100

Hello Todd, hello list,

If a ICC-profile is choosen as source-profile in a conversion, the transformation from the source- device colorspace to Lab is depending from:
- the software choosed for profile calculation
- the settings for percptual gamut mapping in the profiling software (if available)
- the rendering intent, which is specified for a transformation.


Lets assume, a photographer has made a properly shot of a standard camera profiling target. If this shot is used to produce a camera profile with different profiling software, this will lead to different perceptual camera->LAB conversions.

The same is with CMYK to CMYK conversions. If printer profiles are calculated form standard characterization-data like e.g. FOGRA39, the resulting perceptual tables for
- CMYK->Lab (profile used as source profile)
- Lab->CMYK (profile used as target profile)
Are quite different depending on the profiling software.


If your source profile is matrice based RGB-profile like e.g. sRGB, AdobeRGB, ProPhoteRGB or eci-RGB, the gamut mapping in the transformation is only depending from the target profile, because matrice profiles have identical tables for all intents the profile.

Actually the ICC (vendor-group maintaining the ICC profile specification) is making the first steps for a better compatibility of gamutmapping between profiles from different vendors. The project is called RPMG ( Reference Print Media Gamut)
This could be interpreted a target values, how the perceptual intent of a profile should be calculated.
The concept has some good ideas, but till today, the ICC has no defined test procedures for a profile, if the perceptual gamaut mapping of a profile is conform to the RPMG definition, neither not one of the big ICC-players like e.g. X-Rite, Heidelberg, Kodak, AGFA e.g. announced to support the RPMG specs in their. The only application I know is the opensource ArgyllCMS from Graeme...



For high end colormanagement workflows:
--------------------------------------
Actually, if you want to harmonize gamut mapping for different target printing processes, all target profiles should be calculated with the same profiling software. Files deliverd to a printing house should always be in the final colorspace which has to be agreed with printing house before making the separation


A special version of an highend RGB-workflow is the usage of devicelink-profiles from e.g. AdobeRGB to the different target colorspaces. In this case, the gamutmapping from AdobeRGB to the target colorspace is optimized through the devicelink creation.

Regards
Jan-Peter

Todd Shirley wrote:
Hi Graeme

I'm interested in this thread, but I'm getting confused, so hopefully you can clarify. It seems like you didn't respond to Marco's question because he used the word "convert" instead of "mapped". In your post (below) you say "mapped from an unspecified non-specific source gamut to a specific destination gamut" which to me implies a conversion, and if it doesn't, what do you mean? Are you referring to the fact that a conversion using standard ICC profiles requires 2 profiles because each profile can only describe one device, and therefore the destination profile is converting from a "non-specific source gamut" because it, by itself, does not "know" the source? How is this a problem, considering you must use a source and destination profile for any conversion?

My (limited) understanding of device-links is that they more-or-less just roll two device profiles into one, thus fulfilling your requirement that proper gamut mapping is "mapped from a specific source gamut to a specific destination gamut". How is this gamut mapping better than using two discrete profiles?

I get confused when you say "how can the source profile have any affect on the gamut mapping ?" Perhaps I don't understand exactly how all this works, but doesn't the source profile convert the color information into LAB using the source gamut, thus resulting in a set of LAB numbers that are limited to the source gamut? Then when this information is passed to the destination profile, isn't the source gamut implied because all the LAB numbers fall within the source gamut? So it seems to me that even though the "gamut mapping has already been hard coded into the destination profiles B2A table", because the LAB numbers are limited to the source gamut the destination gamut is "informed" by the source gamut? When I write it out like this, I see that maybe there could be a problem with this transform, but I can't quite get my head around it. Clearly you have a better idea, so I'd appreciate if you could clarify why a device profile transform is better!

Thanks for your time.

–––


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  • Follow-Ups:
    • Re: "Proper Gamut Mapping"
      • From: Todd Shirley <email@hidden>
References: 
 >Re: "Proper Gamut Mapping" (From: Marco Ugolini <email@hidden>)
 >Re: "Proper Gamut Mapping" (From: Graeme Gill <email@hidden>)
 >Re: "Proper Gamut Mapping" (From: Todd Shirley <email@hidden>)

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