Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 4, Issue 174
Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 4, Issue 174
- Subject: Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 4, Issue 174
- From: John Wawrzonek <email@hidden>
- Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 15:52:57 -0400
- Thread-topic: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 4, Issue 174
Re shadow detail on a 9800.
I print using a Color Savvy profile (which you can get from Bill Atkinson)
and without a rip with very good shadow detail.
John Wawrzonek
On 5/12/07 3:03 PM, "email@hidden"
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: Shadow detail - printer profiles (david wollmann)
> 2. Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 4, Issue 173 (MSP Graphics)
> 3. Re: Shadow detail - printer profiles (edmund ronald)
> 4. Re: Shadow detail - printer profiles (Chris Murphy)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 13:50:53 -0600
> From: david wollmann <email@hidden>
> Subject: Re: Shadow detail - printer profiles
> To: email@hidden
> Message-ID: <email@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> I have a question in regards to shadow detail. I recently set up a
> friend with ProfileMaker Pro and the iOne with iO table. He's a
> photographer working on a series of color Fine Art portraits. The
> typical lighting is low key but there is a great deal of shadow
> detail in his 4x5 chromes and the subsequent scans. He is using the
> Color Burst rip to drive his Epson 9800 which is loaded with Epson
> Luster paper.
>
> The shadows have always been a problem with this, they plug up before
> they should. We looked at different rendering intents but still the
> results were producing plugged shadows. Perceptual looked best but it
> was still loosing detail and producing a darker result then what was
> there in the scan.
>
> The way I finally solved this was to have him print to the Rip
> directly from Photoshop so that we could use Black Point
> Compensation. Photoshop would convert to the printer profile and then
> we set up Color Burst using the same printer profile as CMYK source
> and output using an Absolute setting.
>
> The prints finally have a more open look in the shadows and the
> detail they should.
>
> What type of work flows will help preserve the dynamic range and the
> detail in the shadows when using a RIP when you don't have BPC? Is
> this a hole in the ICC spec that will someday be addressed?
>
> Thank you,
> David.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 16:10:57 -0700
> From: MSP Graphics <email@hidden>
> Subject: Re: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 4, Issue 173
> To: email@hidden
> Message-ID: <email@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>>>
>>> I've been struggling with my GMB iO with PMP to get a decent profile
>>> of a particular canvas - it just doesn't want to dig into the blacks,
>>> for whatever reason. I'm thinking the spectro is struggling to see
>>> past the sheen of the canvas to pickup the true density of the blacks
>>> and shadows.
>
> That is exactly the problem, and I'm at a loss to see how a different
> choice of profiling software can make the sort of difference you
> report--but I remain open-minded. However, like Steve, I've found
> that dirrectly controlling the specular reflections with the 'lino's
> polarizer works extremely well, which is one very big reason I didn't
> sell the Spectroscan when I bought an iSis XL.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Mike Strickler
>
> MSP Graphic Services
> 423 Aaron St. Suite E
> Cotati, CA 94931
> ph. 707.664.1628
> fx. 707.939.4542
> www.mspgraphics.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 14:46:32 +0200
> From: "edmund ronald" <email@hidden>
> Subject: Re: Shadow detail - printer profiles
> To: "Derek Cooper" <email@hidden>
> Cc: Douglas Rhiner <email@hidden>,
> email@hidden
> Message-ID:
> <email@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I'm quite wiling to make a profile with small target Monaco to see if
> this solves the issues, if anyone is interested in acquiring a target
> themselves I'll run it through Monaco - just email me
>
> My feeling is that all RGB inkjet work should be done with fairly small
> targets.
>
> Edmund
>
> edmundronald at gmail dot com
>
> On 5/11/07, Derek Cooper <email@hidden> wrote:
>> On May 9, 2007, at 6:07 PM, Douglas Rhiner wrote:
>>
>>> I had/have the same issue with iO and PMP with gloss canvases.
>>
>> Good to know I'm not alone. Got some phone calls offline too, so I'm
>> not a total loser here. Seems some substrates do confuse PMP.
>>
>> Thanks for the offline calls you guys!! I'll return the favour - some
>> day.
>>
>>> All the profiles I created for gloss canvas with PMP resulted in a
>>> profile with a really shallow black end where the black end was
>>> "double peaked". Tried averaging various quantities of readings to
>>> no avail.
>>
>> Ok.
>>
>>> Tried Monaco Profiler and got an awesome profile.
>>
>> It was suggested that I give basICColor CMYKick and Catch a try,
>> which I've done. Kick won't take my readings directly, cause they are
>> RGB (it's looking for CMYK - go figure!). Anyhow, I used one of their
>> small patch count targets (~300), printed, then fed it to Catch to
>> read in the patches with my iO (anyone know if docs exist for Catch's
>> support of the iO?). I fed the resultant read to Kick and it did a
>> superb job in the blacks. So, spectro is doing ok, it appears as
>> though PMP is the culprit. I am going to linearize for a substrate
>> and run another test to see if I can get Kick to perform even better
>> in the blacks (I know it should be getting blacker results).
>>
>> Sound like fun? Ugh.
>>
>> Derek Cooper Photography
>> www.derekcooper.com
>> www.reproducingart.ca
>> V 613-767-9106
>>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 12:55:54 -0400
> From: Chris Murphy <email@hidden>
> Subject: Re: Shadow detail - printer profiles
> To: david wollmann <email@hidden>
> Cc: email@hidden
> Message-ID: <email@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>
> On May 11, 2007, at 3:50 PM, david wollmann wrote:
>
>> What type of work flows will help preserve the dynamic range and
>> the detail in the shadows when using a RIP when you don't have BPC?
>> Is this a hole in the ICC spec that will someday be addressed?
>
> ICC v4 perceptual rendering gives nearly the same results as RelCol +
> BPC. But to really flip the switch on ICC v4 workflows where the
> source image is in an edit space (sRGB, Adobe RGB (1998), ProPhoto
> RGB, etc), the source profile also needs to be v4. Currently they
> don't exist yet publicly, but are being worked on.
>
>
> Chris Murphy
> Color Remedies (TM)
> New York, NY
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Co-author "Real World Color Management, 2nd Ed"
>
>
>
>
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> End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 4, Issue 174
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