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Today's Topics:
1. RE: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 6, Issue 145
(Kircheim, Anthony HUS)
2. Re: LaCie 324 Hood (Steve Upton)
3. Spot color and its alternate color space (Rasmus Olsen)
4. LaCie Blue Eye (Fleisher, Ken)
5. Monitor Recommendation??? (Jim Mitchell)
6. Re: Monitor Recommendation??? (Marco Ugolini)
7. Re: Monitor Recommendation??? (Thomas Holm/pixl)
8. i1Pro Stabilization (Fleisher, Ken)
9. Re: Monitor Recommendation??? (Fleisher, Ken)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 15:09:52 -0400
From: "Kircheim, Anthony HUS" <email@hidden>
Subject: RE: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 6, Issue 145
To: "email@hidden"
<email@hidden>
Message-ID:
<email@hidden
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hey Ken,
I can make you a hood for $500 and you can use it on any monitor...
Pick your color also...
Anthony Kircheim
Applications Specialist
Heidelberg U.S.A.
1000 Gutenberg Drive
Kennesaw Ga. 30144
678-354-8122
email@hidden
Does anyone know if you can buy the hood for the LaCie 324 monitor
without
the need to buy the calibration software? I can only find the monitor
bundled with the hood/software but not just the hood.
-----Original Message-----
From: colorsync-users-bounces+anthony.kircheim=email@hidden
[mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+anthony.kircheim=email@hidden
] On Behalf Of email@hidden
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 3:05 PM
To: email@hidden
Subject: Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 6, Issue 145
Send Colorsync-users mailing list submissions to
email@hidden
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/colorsync-users
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
email@hidden
You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Colorsync-users digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. LaCie 324 Hood (Fleisher, Ken)
2. Chromatic adaptation -- original Von Kries ideas (Roger)
3. Re: Chromatic adaptation -- original Von Kries ideas (Graeme
Gill)
4. Re: Chromatic adaptation -- original Von Kries ideas
(edmund ronald)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:51:58 -0400
From: "Fleisher, Ken" <email@hidden>
Subject: LaCie 324 Hood
To: colorsync-users List <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <C66FE51E.D154%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Does anyone know if you can buy the hood for the LaCie 324 monitor
without
the need to buy the calibration software? I can only find the monitor
bundled with the hood/software but not just the hood.
Thanks!
--
Ken Fleisher
Photographer
Imaging & Visual Services
National Gallery of Art
Washington, D.C.
Phone: (202) 712-7471
email@hidden
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:10:18 -0400
From: Roger <email@hidden>
Subject: Chromatic adaptation -- original Von Kries ideas
To: 'colorsync-users List' <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <003c01c9f9d7$ef83ffe0$ce8bffa0$@ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Hello folks,
I've been digging into the original concepts behind chromatic
adaptation
lately and found myself returning to the Von Kries literature. His
rules of
adaptation state that the cones spectral sensitivities are invariant
(fixed)
and independent from each other. Chromatic adaptation is often
presented in
the context of how to adapt some object color tristimulus values
between two
sets of illumination or illuminants (D50 vs D65 as in ICC PCS). But
I also
often find mention of this idea of 'Reference', as in Reference
white. I
realize that the Reference white in question is the one to which the
observer is currently adapted. But could there be another notion of
Reference White where our that our brain has always access to? To
which all
illuminations are always compared? Naturally? Possibly linked to the
idea of
color constancy?
I don't find anything in the literature to substantiate this idea.
Is this
too far-fetch an idea or could this make any sense conceptually? For
example, suppose I observe a red apple under direct sunlight. My
brain has
no problem recognizing the apple from the combined apple spectral
reflectance and sunlight spectral energy. My cones, somehow, are
adapted to
this "sunlight" and correctly infer the visual cues from the scene
to adjust
the Von Kries Coefficients in my cones, so to speak, so that the red
apple
appears like a red color I've learned to expect.
But suppose I now step indoor with my red apple, and I'm seeing it
under
tungsten light. My question is : could it be argued that the "red"
color
will appear red as though my brain has somehow adjust the gain
sensitivities
of my cones to render the red to some abstract, possibly innate,
notion of
"white", that would be independent of the scene? Maybe I'm trying to
read
too much in chromatic adaptation?
Roger
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 10:00:24 +1000
From: Graeme Gill <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: Chromatic adaptation -- original Von Kries ideas
To: ColorSync <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Roger wrote:
But suppose I now step indoor with my red apple, and I'm seeing it
under
tungsten light. My question is : could it be argued that the "red"
color
will appear red as though my brain has somehow adjust the gain
sensitivities
of my cones to render the red to some abstract, possibly innate,
notion of
"white", that would be independent of the scene? Maybe I'm trying
to read
too much in chromatic adaptation?
Hi Roger,
I don't imagine that this is a realistic mechanism, since cone
gain sensitivity adjustment seems to be low level and automatic.
More likely that there are several stages of adaptation, with latter
ones occurring further along the vision processing/interpretation
pipeline.
Some may be partially learned, and therefore influenced by what we
recognise.
I'm certainly conscious of some situations (tinted paper) where
the cone adjustment is incomplete (meaning that the paper looks
tinted), yet photographs reproduced on the paper appear to
have white highlights. So the cone adaptation is partial, and it
must be the higher lever image interpretation processing that
is doing the rest of the adaptation.
Graeme Gill.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 13:28:29 +0900
From: edmund ronald <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: Chromatic adaptation -- original Von Kries ideas
To: Roger <email@hidden>
Cc: colorsync-users List <email@hidden>
Message-ID:
<email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
There are two different issues here:
- Can we in simple cases for colored object found in nature compute
what a colorimeter would see when changing illuminant, when the before
and after illuinant is known? The answer seems to be supplied by the
Von Kries transforms.
- How does the brain decide which transform to apply?
Edmund
On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 8:10 AM, Roger<email@hidden> wrote:
Hello folks,
I've been digging into the original concepts behind chromatic
adaptation
lately and found myself returning to the Von Kries literature. His
rules of
adaptation state that the cones spectral sensitivities are
invariant (fixed)
and independent from each other. Chromatic adaptation is often
presented in
the context of how to adapt some object color tristimulus values
between two
sets of illumination or illuminants (D50 vs D65 as in ICC PCS). But
I also
often find mention of this idea of 'Reference', as in Reference
white. I
realize that the Reference white in question is the one to which the
observer is ?currently adapted. But could there be another notion of
Reference White where our that our brain has always access to? To
which all
illuminations are always compared? Naturally? Possibly linked to
the idea of
color constancy?
I don't find anything in the literature to substantiate this idea.
Is this
too far-fetch an idea or could this make any sense conceptually? For
example, suppose I observe a red apple under direct sunlight. My
brain has
no problem recognizing the apple from the combined apple spectral
reflectance and sunlight spectral energy. My cones, somehow, are
adapted to
this "sunlight" and correctly infer the visual cues from the scene
to adjust
the Von Kries Coefficients in my cones, so to speak, so that the
red apple
appears like a red color I've learned to expect.
But suppose I now step indoor with my red apple, and I'm seeing it
under
tungsten light. My question is : could it be argued that the "red"
color
will appear red as though my brain has somehow adjust the gain
sensitivities
of my cones to render the red to some abstract, possibly innate,
notion of
"white", that would be independent of the scene? Maybe I'm trying
to read
too much in chromatic adaptation?
Roger
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End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 6, Issue 145
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 13:56:40 -0700
From: Steve Upton <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: LaCie 324 Hood
To: colorsync-users List <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <p0624082ac6717de25765@[216.254.4.110]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
At 3:51 PM -0400 6/30/09, Fleisher, Ken wrote:
Does anyone know if you can buy the hood for the LaCie 324 monitor
without
the need to buy the calibration software? I can only find the monitor
bundled with the hood/software but not just the hood.
perhaps as a replacement part?
Phone them up and say yours fell into a paper shredder....
regards,
Steve
--
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:26:32 +0200
From: Rasmus Olsen <email@hidden>
Subject: Spot color and its alternate color space
To: "email@hidden"
<email@hidden>
Message-ID:
<email@hidden
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Knowledgeable gentleman and ladies,
Regarding the transformation of a spot color's alternate color in
LAB to DeviceCMYK (as dictated by the PDF/X-1 standard) - does
rendering intents play any role at all?
I've tested this in Acrobat with a PDF exported from InDesign (using
the Pantone solid warm red) - one with alternate color in LAB, the
other in DeviceCMYK. Using a combination of different destinations
(eg. ISO Coated v2 and ISO Newspaper) with the four RIs I can't
measure any difference at all - converting the spot to process via
the inkmanager in Acrobat gives me same numbers on all the test
versions.
Working with the mentioned tests I've also noticed something
peculiar in InDesign: Browsing through the Pantone swatch libraries
it appears that the solid swatches defaults to DeviceCMYK, the
pastels are all LAB, matellic coated mixed DeviceCMYK/LAB. Why this
difference?
Using the "Use standard LAB values for spot colors" function via the
Inkmanager only seems to affect the Pantone swatches that defaults
to DeviceCMYK - I expected the opposite to happen with the LAB
swatches, but it didn't ?
Thanks!
--
Best regards
Rasmus Olsen
Premedia and automation
D: +45 8935 1504
digital xpress as
Filmbyen 2
8100 Aarhus C
Denmark
P: +45 8935 1500
F: +45 8935 1501
www.dxp.dk
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 10:51:15 -0400
From: "Fleisher, Ken" <email@hidden>
Subject: LaCie Blue Eye
To: colorsync-users List <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <C67241A3.D1A7%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Hello. Again, I tried to search on the archive before asking, but the
results return no posts after September 2005, so I apologize if this
has
already been discussed.
Can anyone please tell me if the LaCie calibration software must be
used
with the Blue Eye Pro, or will it work with an i1Pro? We are
considering
purchase of LaCie 324 monitor and I¹m trying to determine if I
purchase the
software whether it¹s necessary to also purchase the colorimeter.
As far as
I can tell from the LaCie website, it only works with the Blue Eye
Pro, but
I¹m not certain that¹s correct.
Thanks!
Ken
--
Ken Fleisher
Photographer
Imaging & Visual Services
National Gallery of Art
Washington, D.C.
Phone: (202) 712-7471
email@hidden
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 12:01:21 -0500
From: Jim Mitchell <email@hidden>
Subject: Monitor Recommendation???
To: "email@hidden"
<email@hidden>
Message-ID: <C6725353.1BCD%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I need a recommendation for softproofing with multiple people
looking at an image a the same time. We started out with the cg301,
and because of it's angle dependency the creative folks didn't like
it. If someone was off center to the screen, colors looked much
different than someone sitting right in front of the the screen.
Please make a recommendation.
Jim Mitchell
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 13:13:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Marco Ugolini <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: Monitor Recommendation???
To: Jim Mitchell <email@hidden>,
"email@hidden" <email@hidden>
Message-ID:
<email@hidden
>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Jim Mitchell wrote:
I need a recommendation for softproofing with multiple people
looking at an image a the same time. We started out with the
cg301, and because of it's angle dependency the creative folks
didn't like it. If someone was off center to the screen, colors
looked much different than someone sitting right in front of the
the screen. Please make a recommendation.
Jim,
Just get everyone to line up right behind you. (Wear a hat if you
have a bald spot and don't want them to comment on it!) <g>
I'm only half-kidding. If you are looking for an LCD monitor that
exhibits no significant visual shifts when the image is viewed from
an angle wider than, say, 15 to 20 degrees from straight center, you
may be in for a bitter disappointment. Not even the more expensive
units can do that -- not quite yet, at least.
And please tell those creative folks that as much as they may not
like it and gripe over it, that's still how it works at this point
in time, and you'll all have to find ways to *make* it work, instead
of asking for what is simply not there.
Marco
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 19:47:43 +0200
From: Thomas Holm/pixl <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: Monitor Recommendation???
To: Jim Mitchell <email@hidden>
Cc: "email@hidden"
<email@hidden>
Message-ID: <email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes
On 02/07/2009, at 19.01, Jim Mitchell wrote:
I need a recommendation for softproofing with multiple people
looking at an image a the same time. We started out with the cg301,
and because of it's angle dependency the creative folks didn't like
it. If someone was off center to the screen, colors looked much
different than someone sitting right in front of the the screen.
Please make a recommendation.
Go for something with an S-IPS (IPS) panel.
Quato Intelliproof 240E is an example.
If you are in the US NEC Spectraview might be an option.
I don't know about Eizo, they don't generally list panel types in the
specs so it's hard to say.
Best Regards
Thomas Holm / Pixl Aps
- Colour Management Consultant
- Seminars speaker and tutor on CM and Digital Imaging etc.
- Ugra Certified Expert/Consultant: Process Standard Offset
- Apple Solutions Expert
- Member, ColorManagementGroup.com
- www.pixl.dk · email@hidden
--
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:50:02 -0400
From: "Fleisher, Ken" <email@hidden>
Subject: i1Pro Stabilization
To: colorsync-users List <email@hidden>
Message-ID: <C672799A.D1C4%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Roger, or anyone else,
Do you have a reference for this comment? I couldn't find in which
document
it was stated. Thanks!
Ken
It has been shown that, when the i1pro is left hung to the display
for 15 to
30 minutes, before taking measurements, thermal drift issues with
shadow
details are minimized. That's the technique used by IDEAlliance for
monitor
certification at RIT.
Roger
--
Ken Fleisher
Photographer
Imaging & Visual Services
National Gallery of Art
Washington, D.C.
Phone: (202) 712-7471
email@hidden
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 02 Jul 2009 14:54:01 -0400
From: "Fleisher, Ken" <email@hidden>
Subject: Re: Monitor Recommendation???
To: Thomas Holm/pixl <email@hidden>, Jim Mitchell
<email@hidden>
Cc: "email@hidden"
<email@hidden>
Message-ID: <C6727A89.D1C8%email@hidden>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
The Eizo CG210 and CG211 are S-IPS, but in my opinion they suffer
from the
same viewing angle problems despite what other people say. Perhaps
not as
bad as S-PVA, but the problem is still there. Maybe the newer H-IPS
panels
have better performance than S-IPS, but I haven't seen any myself so
I can't
say.
Ken
On 7/2/09 1:47 PM, "Thomas Holm/pixl" <email@hidden> wrote:
On 02/07/2009, at 19.01, Jim Mitchell wrote:
I need a recommendation for softproofing with multiple people
looking at an image a the same time. We started out with the cg301,
and because of it's angle dependency the creative folks didn't like
it. If someone was off center to the screen, colors looked much
different than someone sitting right in front of the the screen.
Please make a recommendation.
Go for something with an S-IPS (IPS) panel.
Quato Intelliproof 240E is an example.
If you are in the US NEC Spectraview might be an option.
I don't know about Eizo, they don't generally list panel types in the
specs so it's hard to say.
Best Regards
Thomas Holm / Pixl Aps
- Colour Management Consultant
- Seminars speaker and tutor on CM and Digital Imaging etc.
- Ugra Certified Expert/Consultant: Process Standard Offset
- Apple Solutions Expert
- Member, ColorManagementGroup.com
- www.pixl.dk · email@hidden
--
Ken Fleisher
Photographer
Imaging & Visual Services
National Gallery of Art
Washington, D.C.
Phone: (202) 712-7471
email@hidden
------------------------------
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