Re: fine art reproduction questions
Re: fine art reproduction questions
- Subject: Re: fine art reproduction questions
- From: Robin Myers <email@hidden>
- Date: Mon, 3 May 2010 10:05:20 -0700
Hello Mr. Smith,
May I bring your attention to the portion of my message where I mention the Photo Research PR-655 and PR-670? Both of these telespectroradiometers are non-contact, hence the "tele" in the name.
You are correct that they are expensive. The PR-655, with appropriate accessories, sells for about $15,000 without software. The Photo Research software alone is an additional $2000 just to import data from the instrument (and it is PC only). However, compared to the $30,000 to $50,000 for a medium format digital camera, the cost is not too outrageous to allow spectrally measuring the artwork without damage. Also, when you consider that the PR-655/670 can spectrally measure anything at which it is pointed (artworks, lights, viewing booths, etc.) then you are getting lots of versatility and utility for the price.
Note: Better Light bundles SpectraShop 3 with its ColorSage package (powered by HP Artist) to acquire the PR-655/670 data at a much more reasonable cost, and it works on Mac and PC.
Robin Myers
rmimaging.com
On May 3, 2010, at 9:44 AM, Stanley Smith wrote:
> I have to jump in here to say that, while the HP system is a very interesting approach, our painting conservators would never allow a spectrophotometer to actually touch the surface of a painting, thereby rendering the system useless. I believe that there are machines that can sample colors at a distance, but they are frightfully expensive.
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> Stanley Smith
> Manager, Imaging Services
> J. Paul Getty Museum
> 1200 Getty Center Drive, Suite 1000
> Los Angeles, CA 90049-1687
> (310) 440-7286
>
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> >>> Robin Myers <email@hidden> 5/2/2010 2:34 PM >>>
> On May 2, 2010, at 2:01 PM, Ben Goren wrote:
>
> > On 2010 May 2, at 1:20 PM, Robin Myers wrote:
> >
> >> As for the HP spectral system, it is called HP Artist.
> >
> > I assume this is a practical implementation of that stuff that RIT is working on that everybody's been linking to in this thread? If so, I'm thrilled to learn that it might be available to mere mortals sooner rather than later.
>
> When I became involved with it about 5 years or so ago it was an HP research project, but it did involve an RIT professor who was working for HP at the time, so there might be some connection.
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> >
> >> After processing the result is a TIFF image with a custom profile.
> >
> > This would be a profile specific to that image? If so, is it usable as a working space or must it be converted to something else first? And, if the latter, are you aware of any particular reason why they didn't just make it a Lab TIFF instead?
>
> The profile is image specific. The original artwork image is a raw image, 16-bit/channel linear tone curve. The output image is a copy of the original image with a custom profile for that image only and is designed to go straight to the printer. You can, of course, intercede and process however you like in Photoshop, but the intended workflow is for maximum throughput and the quality is high enough not to need intermediate processing (unless you want to try tweaking the last few percent of accuracy from the result). This image can be sent to any printer, but an HP Z3200 must be connected to the processing computer to create the custom profile.
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> >
> > Any chance there's more information on the process somewhere? Perhaps, say, enough for somebody to figure out a way of doing the same basic thing manually?
>
> HP has been very quiet with details of the process. Manually doing the same thing would be very difficult, given that the process requires processing lots of spectral data.
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> >
> > One thing I'm wondering about...almost nothing outside of a photographic target has large patches of uniform color. How, then, does one make spectral measurements of the art and associate that with particular parts of the image? Do you just look for areas with relatively little detail and manually identify them? Or do you use a grid and not worry about averaging multiple colors with a single sample? Or...?
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> The operator samples the artwork attempting to get the entire range of color represented. Often the problem has been finding enough areas to measure given that there must be a minimum of 50 spectral measurements. Many artworks have such a limited number of colors that often duplicates occur in the measurements.
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> >
> > I'm assuming, of course, that something similar to an i1 will be used.
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> I think Ergosoft uses the i1 Pro, but Better Light bundles SpectraShop 3 with their implementation, called ColorSage. SpectraShop 3 allows for the Photo Research PR-655 or PR-670 telespectroradiometers to be used, in addition to the i1 Pro, Spectrolino or ColorEye XTH. The Photo Research units are non-contact measuring devices which is an ideal solution for fragile artworks such as pastels or pencil drawings.
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> >
> > Hmmm...I just had a really, really interesting thought (and anybody at HP is welcome to steal it). The Z-series printers have that built-in i1, and a paper transport mechanism. I'm sure it wouldn't be a stretch for the engineers who built it to adapt that to a large-format scanning table, like an i1 IO on steroids, to be able to make a relatively low-resolution spectral image of flat art. Couple that with a high-resolution scanner and a bit of math from RIT, and you probably would get perfect idiot-proof results from a machine that costs about as much as the printer. I imagine there'd be a non-trivial market for such a device.
>
> It is my experience that there is no such thing as an idiot proof device. The very nature of idiots ensures they will find a way to defeat such a device or system. ;-)
>
> Robin Myers
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