Re: Measuring "standard IT8.7/4 Random" on iSisXL using ColorPort 2.0
Re: Measuring "standard IT8.7/4 Random" on iSisXL using ColorPort 2.0
- Subject: Re: Measuring "standard IT8.7/4 Random" on iSisXL using ColorPort 2.0
- From: Marc Levine <email@hidden>
- Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 18:01:54 -0500
Roger,
In ColorPort 2, select "Tabloid" as you page size and set the left margin to 5.5cm. That should do the trick regarding the chart format.
As far as the iSis speed goes, the iSis makes 2 passes by design. The 2 LEDs (1 capturing only the visible spectrum and the other capturing only a portion of the UV spectrum) cannot be on at the same time. The 2 spectrums must be captured independently. I believe that the spectrums are then mathematically merged in the SDK and then pushed to the application that is driving the device.
In any event, there's no way to turn both LEDs on a once. I am fairly confident that this was explored, considering that the iSis was originally intended to be a market competitor to the DTP70 (before X-Rite acquired GMB). If it were possible to turn both LEDs on at once - or possibly flash them at high speed to "weave" the measurements together - then X-Rite would have done that.
Last note, I find it additionally interesting that not only must the LED and visible spectrum components be captured independently, but they must also be captured is the same direction of head-travel. You might notice that the head sweeps twice before retracting the media to take its second set of UV readings. And... if you have 1 row left in the chart, the head will always read the visible, return to home, and then read the UV. Strange, but important to somebody somewhere.
Whatever the case, the iSis works like it works. The DTP70 used a single light source to capture either UV-in or UV-ex measurement. The iSis uses 2 light sources, requiring 2 passes if you want UV-in (because the measurement is built from 2 pieces of data). Like Steve mentioned, the only way to make the iSis go faster would be to scan in "UVcut" mode, where measurement from the UV LED is skipped.
Hope this helps,
Marc
On Jan 21, 2011, at 3:03 PM, email@hidden wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: cxf light source files (Hesler, Bret)
> 2. Measuring "standard IT8.7/4 Random" on iSisXL using ColorPort
> 2.0 (Roger Breton)
> 3. Re: Measuring "standard IT8.7/4 Random" on iSisXL using
> ColorPort 2.0 (Derek Lambert)
> 4. Re: Measuring "standard IT8.7/4 Random" on iSisXL using
> ColorPort 2.0 (Steve Upton)
> 5. RE: Measuring "standard IT8.7/4 Random" on iSisXL using
> ColorPort 2.0 (Roger Breton)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2011 14:44:26 -0600
> From: "Hesler, Bret" <email@hidden>
> Subject: Re: cxf light source files
> To: "email@hidden"
> <email@hidden>
> Message-ID: <C95E08DA.1117%email@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I have been using SpectraShop from Robin Myers Imaging (www.rmimaging.com) for illuminant and transmissive chart readings with an eye-one. It exports to CGATS or Measuretool .txt file.
>
> Bret
>
>
>
> I've been using i1 share to sample and export light sources for use in printer profile creations. Seeing that i1 share is not fully supported in OSX 10.6, was wondering what alternatives I have? Does it still function properly enough for capturing and exporting cxfs?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Scott
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 11:53:45 -0500
> From: Roger Breton <email@hidden>
> Subject: Measuring "standard IT8.7/4 Random" on iSisXL using ColorPort
> 2.0
> To: "''colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List'"
> <email@hidden>
> Message-ID: <001001cbb98b$c4722a00$4d567e00$@videotron.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Two questions, if I may.
>
> A) Are there target descriptions XMLs anywhere, hidden, that would allow
> reading standard IT8.7/4 Random using the iSisXL in ColorPort 2.0? (I
> thought I looked around carefully but cannot find any)
>
> In case you wonder, I'm fully aware that MeasureTool allows such a feat, but
> with a small limitation. Which brings me to my second question of the day...
>
> B) Is there a way to drive the instrument to obtain the readings in *one
> pass*?
>
> Please Mr. X-Rite, excuse my ignorance but I never knew how the iSis creates
> its measurements internally. I know, this issue was raised in the past on
> the List and I distinctly remember Terry's post about how he like to average
> the two sets of readings off the instrument, to compensate for optical
> brighteners, and Marc Levine's ensuing reply. So the issue sort of came up
> for discussion, once in the past. True. But here's the problem -- my
> problem, really. To measure a standard IT8.7/4 Random chart on the iSisXL
> almost takes 10 minutes. 10 minutes may not sound like much when color
> managing an inkjet printer. But 10 minutes is a lot of time when trying to
> color manage a reluctant printing press. So, I am trying to find a way
> whereby I could cut that time down, possibly, to less than 10 minutes,
> ideally in half that time in an effort to allow more measurements per hour
> and coming to better averaging -- I'm a firm believer in statistical
> analysis. Now, for anyone familiar with the iSis, it is plain to see that
> the instrument makes two passes at each row, in a given chart, to get at the
> final reading, one pass with a White LED illumination and another pass using
> a "UV LED" illumination (for lack of better words). What I would like to
> know is, are these two passes actually necessary to yield a complete, valid
> measurement? Is the instrument SDK doing anything to the two sets of
> measurements on the way in to a host application? Or are these two sets of
> measurements more or less independent of each other, assuming a paper free
> of any optical brightener (this is a very important prerequisite). In
> principle, when measuring such a paper using ProfileMaker's MeasureTool
> v5.10 under Windows7 64bit, a comparison of the two sets of readings should
> not make a difference, should it? But, it wouldn't, in my view, the "UV' or
> "Blue LED" light source does not provide full illumination over 380 to
> 730nm? This is unlike throwing the UV filter on the DTP70 to provide a
> "filtered UV-cut" illumination, right?
>
> I realize this maybe more a question for X-Rite technical support but I
> thought I'd throw it at the list first ;-)
>
> My warmest regards from a cold, -3 Celcius, winter day in Montreal, Canada /
> Roger Breton
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 13:11:13 -0500
> From: Derek Lambert <email@hidden>
> Subject: Re: Measuring "standard IT8.7/4 Random" on iSisXL using
> ColorPort 2.0
> To: Roger Breton <email@hidden>
> Cc: "'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List"
> <email@hidden>
> Message-ID: <email@hidden>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> -3 Celsius is not THAT cold Roger!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Derek Lambert
>
> On Jan 21, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Roger Breton <email@hidden> wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> Two questions, if I may.
>>
>> A) Are there target descriptions XMLs anywhere, hidden, that would allow
>> reading standard IT8.7/4 Random using the iSisXL in ColorPort 2.0? (I
>> thought I looked around carefully but cannot find any)
>>
>> In case you wonder, I'm fully aware that MeasureTool allows such a feat, but
>> with a small limitation. Which brings me to my second question of the day...
>>
>> B) Is there a way to drive the instrument to obtain the readings in *one
>> pass*?
>>
>> Please Mr. X-Rite, excuse my ignorance but I never knew how the iSis creates
>> its measurements internally. I know, this issue was raised in the past on
>> the List and I distinctly remember Terry's post about how he like to average
>> the two sets of readings off the instrument, to compensate for optical
>> brighteners, and Marc Levine's ensuing reply. So the issue sort of came up
>> for discussion, once in the past. True. But here's the problem -- my
>> problem, really. To measure a standard IT8.7/4 Random chart on the iSisXL
>> almost takes 10 minutes. 10 minutes may not sound like much when color
>> managing an inkjet printer. But 10 minutes is a lot of time when trying to
>> color manage a reluctant printing press. So, I am trying to find a way
>> whereby I could cut that time down, possibly, to less than 10 minutes,
>> ideally in half that time in an effort to allow more measurements per hour
>> and coming to better averaging -- I'm a firm believer in statistical
>> analysis. Now, for anyone familiar with the iSis, it is plain to see that
>> the instrument makes two passes at each row, in a given chart, to get at the
>> final reading, one pass with a White LED illumination and another pass using
>> a "UV LED" illumination (for lack of better words). What I would like to
>> know is, are these two passes actually necessary to yield a complete, valid
>> measurement? Is the instrument SDK doing anything to the two sets of
>> measurements on the way in to a host application? Or are these two sets of
>> measurements more or less independent of each other, assuming a paper free
>> of any optical brightener (this is a very important prerequisite). In
>> principle, when measuring such a paper using ProfileMaker's MeasureTool
>> v5.10 under Windows7 64bit, a comparison of the two sets of readings should
>> not make a difference, should it? But, it wouldn't, in my view, the "UV' or
>> "Blue LED" light source does not provide full illumination over 380 to
>> 730nm? This is unlike throwing the UV filter on the DTP70 to provide a
>> "filtered UV-cut" illumination, right?
>>
>> I realize this maybe more a question for X-Rite technical support but I
>> thought I'd throw it at the list first ;-)
>>
>> My warmest regards from a cold, -3 Celcius, winter day in Montreal, Canada /
>> Roger Breton
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
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>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>>
>> This email sent to email@hidden
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 10:14:04 -0800
> From: Steve Upton <email@hidden>
> Subject: Re: Measuring "standard IT8.7/4 Random" on iSisXL using
> ColorPort 2.0
> To: "''colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List'"
> <email@hidden>
> Message-ID: <p0624080ac95f7b6eb3f5@[216.254.4.110]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> At 11:53 AM -0500 1/21/11, Roger Breton wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>
> Hi Roger!
>
>> Two questions, if I may.
>>
>> A) Are there target descriptions XMLs anywhere, hidden, that would allow
>> reading standard IT8.7/4 Random using the iSisXL in ColorPort 2.0? (I
>> thought I looked around carefully but cannot find any)
>
> this wouldn't be too hard to create as a new target in ColorPort would it? or am I missing something?
>
>> In case you wonder, I'm fully aware that MeasureTool allows such a feat, but
>> with a small limitation. Which brings me to my second question of the day...
>>
>> B) Is there a way to drive the instrument to obtain the readings in *one
>> pass*?
>>
>> Please Mr. X-Rite, excuse my ignorance but I never knew how the iSis creates
>> its measurements internally. I know, this issue was raised in the past on
>> the List and I distinctly remember Terry's post about how he like to average
>> the two sets of readings off the instrument, to compensate for optical
>> brighteners, and Marc Levine's ensuing reply. So the issue sort of came up
>> for discussion, once in the past. True. But here's the problem -- my
>> problem, really. To measure a standard IT8.7/4 Random chart on the iSisXL
>> almost takes 10 minutes. 10 minutes may not sound like much when color
>> managing an inkjet printer. But 10 minutes is a lot of time when trying to
>> color manage a reluctant printing press. So, I am trying to find a way
>> whereby I could cut that time down, possibly, to less than 10 minutes,
>> ideally in half that time in an effort to allow more measurements per hour
>> and coming to better averaging -- I'm a firm believer in statistical
>> analysis. Now, for anyone familiar with the iSis, it is plain to see that
>> the instrument makes two passes at each row, in a given chart, to get at the
>> final reading, one pass with a White LED illumination and another pass using
>> a "UV LED" illumination (for lack of better words). What I would like to
>> know is, are these two passes actually necessary to yield a complete, valid
>> measurement? Is the instrument SDK doing anything to the two sets of
>> measurements on the way in to a host application? Or are these two sets of
>> measurements more or less independent of each other, assuming a paper free
>> of any optical brightener (this is a very important prerequisite). In
>> principle, when measuring such a paper using ProfileMaker's MeasureTool
>> v5.10 under Windows7 64bit, a comparison of the two sets of readings should
>> not make a difference, should it? But, it wouldn't, in my view, the "UV' or
>> "Blue LED" light source does not provide full illumination over 380 to
>> 730nm? This is unlike throwing the UV filter on the DTP70 to provide a
>> "filtered UV-cut" illumination, right?
>
> As long as you don't need the UV-included measurements you can read it in one pass. I think if you set the software so as to only take UV-cut measurements, it will only do one pass. I know we can control the drivers to do this in our ColorShuttle software.
>
>> I realize this maybe more a question for X-Rite technical support but I
>> thought I'd throw it at the list first ;-)
>>
>> My warmest regards from a cold, -3 Celcius, winter day in Montreal, Canada /
>
> that's not a bad winter day! We had one of the coldest days I can remember here in Seattle yesterday and it was a balmy 6 C (42 F). It must have been the humidity or something but it chilled to the bone (I grew up in Calgary with cold snaps down to the -30's, so I'm no stranger to cold... perhaps I'm just getting old)
>
> Regards,
>
> Steve
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> o Steve Upton CHROMiX www.chromix.com
> o (hueman) 866.CHROMiX
> o email@hidden 206.985.6837
> ________________________________________________________________________
> --
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 13:26:03 -0500
> From: Roger Breton <email@hidden>
> Subject: RE: Measuring "standard IT8.7/4 Random" on iSisXL using
> ColorPort 2.0
> To: 'Steve Upton' <email@hidden>,
> "''colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List'"
> <email@hidden>
> Message-ID: <001401cbb998$a9201250$fb6036f0$@videotron.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> Hi Steve,
>
>> this wouldn't be too hard to create as a new target in ColorPort would it?
> or am I missing something?
>
> Not in the "standard" format, Steve. Not that I can see. The standard layout
> is best for real world press characterisation IMO.
>
>> that's not a bad winter day! We had one of the coldest days I can remember
> here in Seattle yesterday and it was a balmy 6 C (42 F). It > must have been
> the humidity or something but it chilled to the bone (I grew up in Calgary
> with cold snaps down to the -30's, so I'm no > stranger to cold... perhaps
> I'm just getting old)
>
> You may be getting older (I think you are actually getting older...) but
> you'll always have that light in your eyes that will forever make you look
> young ;-)
>
> Best / Roger
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Colorsync-users mailing list
> email@hidden
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>
> End of Colorsync-users Digest, Vol 8, Issue 16
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