Re: Cyan overlay when printing with Epson 3800
Re: Cyan overlay when printing with Epson 3800
- Subject: Re: Cyan overlay when printing with Epson 3800
- From: edmund ronald <email@hidden>
- Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2012 05:46:29 +0200
Mark,
I am indeed honored to be the dumbest member of the ICC. I do so try to
suitably fill this essential role of "the fool", though it is hard to be
even a dwarf among such giants .
I quite agree with everything you say, or at least I think I do.
As you say, we do need a coordinating body for color management in the
computer and graphics industry, and the will to make use of it. Of course I
am just stating just my opinion here and in no way should my opinions be
taken to represent the opinions of other members of the ICC.
Now, you seem to believe that CMS systems should be consistent. Have you
not heard that consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds? No matter. At
the ICC it has been decided that there will be a paper spec, and that the
most brilliant minds of the industry will write code such that Xrite
profiles, Apple and Adobe and Microsoft CMMS, operating systems and
printer drivers shall all give the user the same color, when measured with
Xrite or Minolta instrumentation, without any of the above companies being
in a privileged position to state which is the *correct* color. Such
companies are of course free to establish an industry consortium in the
future, a consortium such as you envisage, that would be involved in
*practically* standardising color.
Edmund
On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 3:49 AM, MARK SEGAL <email@hidden> wrote:
> Edmund,
>
> I don't think you exactly got the gist of what Andrew is saying. Maybe I
> don't either - but I think I did. There needs to be more technical
> coordination and cooperation between the providers of operating systems,
> printer drivers and profile makers to thoroughly test these products under
> all kinds of configurations. The complexity of the systems themselves is
> multiplied by the number of different configurations of models and versions
> of everything that individual practitioners are using. The companies should
> be encouraging the kind of coordination needed to head problems off at the
> pass, rather than erecting the kind of barriers Andrew mentioned in his
> last post. The notion that people should pay money to spend their own time
> for free and then be told their advice won't be used is outrageous and
> counterproductive.
>
> There are two requirements for improving coordination between the players:
> (1) the companies themselves need to be willing to support it, and (2) a
> locus needs to be identified to do the coordination. Once those two
> requirements are in place, very much like Adobe has been doing for
> pre-release versions of Lightroom, a multitude of experienced and
> knowledgeable practitioners with a wide variety of production environments
> should be invited to test forthcoming software in their own configurations,
> report bugs to the coordinating locus, whose responsibility it would be to
> forward these issues to the vendors and have a follow-up system in place
> that keeps them talking to each other as needed until the reported problems
> are replicated (for diagnostiscs) and resolved. This doesn't require
> blaming anyone for anything, but simply gets things fixed, preferably
> before marketing but afterward as needed, in a coordinated manner.
>
> Until this kind of change in industry attitudes and a coordinating
> mechanism is developed, bugs and problems will continue to plague the
> community.
>
> Mark
> ------------------------------
> *From:* edmund ronald <email@hidden>
> *To:* Andrew Rodney <email@hidden>
> *Cc:* 'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List <
> email@hidden>
> *Sent:* Friday, July 13, 2012 8:59:55 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Cyan overlay when printing with Epson 3800
>
> Tom, Andrew, Steve etc are all right. The algorithms work, everyone is
> doing their best, but the ICC systems approach is simply too complex to
> implement interoperably. Things might work if there were a single centrally
> maintained reference implementation that was used by everyone for color
> processing, but the presence way of doing things by "standard" is a
> guarantee of failure by finger-pointing
>
> Edmund
>
> On Sat, Jul 14, 2012 at 2:17 AM, Andrew Rodney <email@hidden
> >wrote:
>
> > On Jul 13, 2012, at 5:40 PM, Steve Upton wrote:
> >
> > > I'm just saying that it is entirely possible that GretagMacbeth (to be
> > historically accurate) could make a perfectly compliant profile that
> could
> > trigger a bug in a CMM, or a print driver, or how a print drive calls a
> > CMM, etc.
> >
> > Absolutely! For example, in older versions of Lightroom, a V4 profile
> > would produce a ‘sum dot’ as described. But not in Photoshop. Blaming the
> > profile vendor is irresponsible.
> >
> >
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