Re: WB, Gray Cards and Cloudy Days
Re: WB, Gray Cards and Cloudy Days
- Subject: Re: WB, Gray Cards and Cloudy Days
- From: Louis Dina <email@hidden>
- Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2013 09:15:06 -0500
David...thanks for the info on RPP workflow. I've tried many different
permutations, and it's a great product. I guess it depends on what one is
trying to achieve. If you are reproducing artwork, and want that piece to
be as close to the original as possible when viewed under standard
lighting, that is one scenario. The discussion I am pursuing is
different...at least I think it is. I'm talking about " a reasonably
accurate" representation of an outdoor scene under conditions that are not
mid-day, 5500K, sea-level conditions, using a heavily overcast day as my
example. I think the two are different, and my approach to WB will be
different, depending which of those two goals I have in mind.
Thomas...Thanks for your last response, which I found helpful. I agree that
monitors, ambient lighting, calibration, etc, play a huge role in the
display of the image. I have my office set up as close to ISO standards as
I can get it...neutral gray walls, 5000K lights throughout, proper print
viewing lights and intensity, proper ambient light level, Adobe RGB gamut
LCD monitor calibrated to 6500K, 2.2g, 120cd/m2, etc. It'll never be
perfect, and I know that, but I do get a great monitor to print match.
What you said about always shooting with daylight WB (about 5000K) supports
what I am seeing, in general. I find this records the outdoor scene "more
accurately" (subjectively, based on what I remember seeing) than shooting a
gray card and setting a WB under cloudy, shade, sunset, or other
conditions. If I were photographing outdoor furniture for Pottery Barn on
an overcast day, and the furniture and accurate colors were the clear
subjects for a catalog, I'd do a WB with gray card or Color Checker, and
use that WB for my final image. That would correct for atmospheric
conditions and render the colors much closer to what they'd look like under
controlled lighting conditions. If I wanted to see the same image that
includes the dreary, cold atmospheric conditions, I'd use Daylight WB, or
certainly move in that directions. The furniture colors would be cooler,
but the overall scene would come closer to what we saw at the time of
exposure. That was the original purpose of this post...to ask what others
were seeing in this regard.
I agree, this subject can lead to color-related food-fights, which is one
reason I wanted to leave "pleasing color" and artistic interpretation out
of the discussion, if possible.
The responses have given me a lot to think about, and have turned on a few
lights, so I appreciate all the great responses. I'm sure there are some
very in-depth studies out there somewhere that attempt to address this
issue. Canon, Nikon, Kodak, Olympus, the ICC or somebody has done this, I'm
sure...perhaps unsuccessfully and without a perfect conclusion.
Thanks,
Lou
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 6:08 AM, Thomas Lianza <email@hidden> wrote:
> Hi Lou,
>
> You haven't really stated how you are viewing these effects. The
> difference between being immersed in ambient light and viewing a scene,
> verses viewing the same scene on a display in a darkened room is huge and
> nearly impossible to characterize. How did we ever live with film? When
> I shoot, I always use daylight (5000k) or tungsten. I never try to white
> balance a scene, particularly when I am immersed in ambient light. My
> recommendation is to shoot with fixed white balance and tune the scene in
> post production. You should also realize that viewing conditions and the
> display calibration state have a great influence on the color you are
> perceiving. It is also quite possible that two displays of differing
> technology, will alter your perception of the scene, even if they are
> "perfectly" calibrated, so discussions like this tend to devolve into
> technical food fights.
>
> Regards,
> Tom Lianza
>
> On 8/18/13 8:11 PM, "Louis Dina" <email@hidden> wrote:
>
> >Terry/Thomas:
> >
> >Thanks for the suggestion about using the warm/cool patches. I only have
> >the standard 24-patch CC target that came when I bought i1Profiler
> >(without
> >the plastic case, which seems pretty chintzy, by the way. For the money,
> >Xrite could include the whole enchilada, with warm/cool patches and all.)
> >
> >It appears I am doing what many people suggest...ie, splitting the
> >difference between standard daylight and a gray card reading in overcast
> >conditions. Some people are using noon lighting conditions for all outdoor
> >shots and letting the image take on whatever color cast the atmospheric
> >conditions create. These responses seem to confirm my thinking for shots
> >which wish to capture the prevailing atmosphere and color.
> >
> >When I want to eliminate the effect of prevailing conditions and to
> >neutralize the light, WB off a spectrally neutral gray card works great,
> >but it forces the exposure to simulate daylight conditions. That's what I
> >often want with portraits, macros, isolated objects, etc, but not
> >necessarily for scenics.
> >
> >Are there any in-depth studies on color and human perception anyone can
> >point me to that deal with this more objectively and scientifically? No
> >problem if there aren't, but I'd like to have a better understanding of
> >how
> >it works. I know it's a difficult and complex thing, so maybe this
> >information is not readily available.
> >
> >Thanks again,
> >
> >Lou
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 5:24 PM, Terence Wyse <email@hidden> wrote:
> >
> >> Why not just use the ColorChecker Passport and use the custom warm/cool
> >> white balance patches to get the scene rendering you want? Click one of
> >>the
> >> cooler patches to bias the WB to the warm side and visa/versa if you
> >>want a
> >> cooler WB. I do this all the time when shooting very early morning or
> >>late
> >> evening.
> >>
> >> Terry
> >>
> >>
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