Re: Silly question department, Display Media White Point
Re: Silly question department, Display Media White Point
- Subject: Re: Silly question department, Display Media White Point
- From: Mark Stegman <email@hidden>
- Date: Tue, 03 Mar 2015 13:22:46 +1100
Roger,
I am NOT a scientist either by any description but I rub shoulders with a few. My role, like yours is that of an educator or communicator, which still has its place in these discussions.
My understanding of the development process for standards, or more precisely, standards-based datasets and profiles, is that, once we have agreed on the basic principles and parameters, tests are conducted to ensure they meet real world expectations. I would also like to add here that the notion of an 'ideal' has never done the cause of standards-based print production much good. After 12647-2 was published there was a wave of enthusiasm that was met with the criticism that standards were based on some (unachievable) ideal printing condition. My response was that many hours of printing, measuring, and averaging were done before any characterisation data sets and the profiles generated from them were published. You might say that the conditions under which they were produced had a limited use case as Fogra/BVDM/ECI used Heidelberg presses (and probably very good ones) but standards, at least in my book, are supposed to reflect the real world of achievable results. Not some 'ideal. The fact that the real world keeps changing just has to be accepted and that's the source of a lot of problems but it's not the fault of the standards or anybody else for the matter. I can't say how the GRACol data sets and profiles were produced by my impression from Don Hutcheson's recent contributions is that it was largely the same, lengthy process.
We don't work in vacuum or an imaginary world of perfect colour even if some of the engineers might like to have that way ;-). Standards are nothing if they're not relevant. Unfortunately, there seems to be a move in this direction lately - towards irrelevance.
Mark Stegman
> On 3 Mar 2015, at 12:38 pm, Roger Breton <email@hidden> wrote:
>
> Graeme,
>
> Why couldn't it be mathematically defined based on some "real world measurements", like Fogra39?
>
> I am no color scientist and was only briefly exposed to models of printing like Neugebauer which, in their basic formulation, I was explained, fail to accurately model real print behavior. I know there are "extensions" to the model but never seen them documented. All I'm saying, naively perhaps, is that, to create an artificial model of printing, does not one need to start with some real world colorimetry, and work from there?
>
> I have a hunch that many "standards" and "specifications" are nothing more than some core dataset that's been massaged in some way to conform to some idealized behavior, that's what I mean by "synthetic".
>
> Roger
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=email@hidden [mailto:colorsync-users-bounces+graxx=email@hidden] On Behalf Of Graeme Gill
> Sent: 2 mars 2015 02:32
> To: email@hidden
> Subject: Re: Silly question department, Display Media White Point
>
> Roger Breton wrote:
>
>> Why does it have to assume "perfect" anything? It does not have to.
>> Take Fogra39. It's very close to an "ideal" print space, and has
>> "real" color mixing with some sort of dot gain curve. Heck, GRACoL20xx is based on Fogra39?
>
> Fogra39 is table based, because it's based on real world measurements.
>
> A synthetic profile would be mathematically defined.
>
> Graeme Gill.
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