Re: Does MF color slides scanning in 24 bit still make sense
Re: Does MF color slides scanning in 24 bit still make sense
- Subject: Re: Does MF color slides scanning in 24 bit still make sense
- From: Mark Stegman <email@hidden>
- Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2016 17:51:47 +1100
Mike, David,
I was going to correct mike as well on the paid membership but it seems the
first time you access the site you have full access to the article. After
that, you pay.
I (visually) scanned the article thinking I would return for the detail. I
may return when I scrape up a dollar for the subs.
From what I recall the 'pepper grain' is/was an inherent characteristic of
the substrate which was more or less apparent in a variety of films.
As for matching sharp optical prints to drum scans of the same colour
negative... That's a great exercise for aspiring photographers, image
editors and printers top get to grips with finer points of colour
reproduction.
Mark
On 22 January 2016 at 17:26, David Scharf <email@hidden>
wrote:
> Hi Mike,
> I read the article just fine without a membership. Try again.
> Dave
> --
> DAVID SCHARF PHOTOGRAPHY
>
> *DAVID SCHARF PHOTOGRAPHY*
>
> Scanning Electron Microscopy
>
> Los Angeles, CA 90039
>
> http://www.scharfphoto.com
>
>
>
>
> On 1/21/16 7:57 PM, Mike Strickler wrote:
>
>> Ernst, the article you link to requires a paid membership to read it,
>> unfortunately. As for Callier effect with color negatives, well, it would
>> have to be a problem with the surface, presumably on the emulsion side, as
>> dyes to not scatter light as do silver grains in black and white film.
>> These surface effects are dramatically reduced by liquid mounting. Aliasing
>> of the grain image, on the other hand image can greatly increase its
>> coarseness. This is a product of sampling frequency and grain pattern, and
>> certain combinations of fim type and aperture size/sampling rate can
>> aggravate the effect. Contrary to common belief using a smaller aperture
>> may actually smooth out the grain by avoiding the frequency at which the
>> aliasing is worst. Why negatives and not positives? They have a sharper
>> grain pattern than positive transparencies, that's all. I've had little
>> trouble matching the look of sharp optical enlargements in digital prints
>> made from drum scans of the same color negatives.
>>
>>
>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 17:15:19 +0100
>>> From: Ernst Dinkla <email@hidden>
>>> To: MARK SEGAL <email@hidden>
>>> Cc: "'colorsync-users?lists.apple.com' List"
>>> <email@hidden>
>>> Subject: Re: Does MF color slides scanning in 24 bit still make sense
>>> Message-ID:
>>> <CAMzUcR1drLRTgv8ApbDiakEo5tC2SDxh=
>>> email@hidden>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>>
>>> You mean the Callier effect as mentioned earlier in one of the messages.
>>> I
>>> doubt that. Sure that effect could be introduced in scanner or slide
>>> copier
>>> illumination but true point light sources + condensors are not used in
>>> 99%
>>> of scanners but the drum scanners. The last can eliminate that effect
>>> again
>>> with aperture control which in practice is similar to CCD scanner multi
>>> sampling, the sensor resolution being below the scan sampling resolution.
>>> That is baked in hardware wise in the Epson and some Umax models but can
>>> be
>>> extended with Vuescan and Silverfast. For the Nikon scanners the multi
>>> sampling is a choice in the driver software. Even lighting in scanners is
>>> more or less impossible with true point light sources but (I imagine) a
>>> flying spot.
>>>
>>> In color negative film the elimination of the orange mask should not
>>> compromise the dye color capture, noise will appear one way or another.
>>> For
>>> color negatives discontinuous spectral lighting whether with LED or CCFL
>>> light sources can actually improve the dye capture if the spectral spikes
>>> are placed at the maximum dye densities and the sensor RGB sensitivity
>>> aimed at the combination of both spike and dye density. Intensity per
>>> channel controlled to get neutrality. Human observer has lost any meaning
>>> there.
>>>
>>> Color film should not create a Callier effect. The pepper grain effect in
>>> scans made on the Minolta scanners etc could be reduced with an extra
>>> diffusor in the light path but what actually caused it was not a Callier
>>> effect but this:
>>> https://luminous-landscape.com/fuji-pepper-grain-the-mystery-resolved/
>>> The problem showed less with wet mount scans, as I wrote before film
>>> emulsion surfaces can play dirty tricks in scanning. Small bubbles in
>>> lenses have no influence, small bubbles in film do, I recall there was
>>> actually a commercial film that relied on it: Vesicular film. Not lost in
>>> obscurity I see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesicular_film
>>>
>>> In the seventees I had a Durst M610? enlarger. Normally equiped with a
>>> opal
>>> bulb tungsten lamp + 45 degr mirror + condensor lens. Fascinated by the
>>> German Veigel enlargers with their projector lamp lighting I tinkered a
>>> slide projection lighting in the Durst. Then adjust the overlap of the
>>> filament + mirrored filament correctly. Creating übergrain prints William
>>> Klein style. On cheap document paper. It had nothing to do with sharpness
>>> and all with contrast. Not usable for color either.
>>>
>>> Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst
>>>
>>> Dinkla Grafische Techniek
>>> Quad, piëzografie, giclée
>>> www.pigment-print.com
>>>
>>>
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