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Re: Cocoa and AudioUnits?
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Re: Cocoa and AudioUnits?


  • Subject: Re: Cocoa and AudioUnits?
  • From: Benjamin Golinvaux <email@hidden>
  • Date: Mon, 27 Jan 2003 10:12:15 +0100

rob and others:

1) try to develop two separate gui sdk (carbon and cocoa) for years and then, try to use the view objects of one api inside the other : probably not an easy job. The good news is : the events are compatible since windows can be mixed. But there
are probably a lot of issues to solve regarding the views (ports etc... i don't know carbon at all so i can't comment)

2) if apple had waited Q3 2003 to release the AU SDK with support for both cocoa AND carbon views, would it have been any better for your business ?

trust me it's painful for us too because we had a cocoa codebase for proprietary plugins before the new AU sdk and no-one of us is a "classic" Mac programmer (means we gotta learn carbon from scratch). But thinking about political decisions when the technical challenge seems very real looks like paranoia to me. Also, i think the fact that apple people are organized in teams (hopefully they are.. picture the mess it would be otherwise) probably makes it difficult for such tasks where big interaction between teams is needed (and i repeat : already being able to mix windows is a very good step... it's only recently that the sample code to do this was released..... this probably means cocoa+carbon interaction is NOT something trivial otherwise it would have been done right from the start.... ). Same is true for coreaudio/quicktime integration ,for example... it would be nice to be able to use AUs for QT audio tracks natively inside a movie..... but it requires integration and time...

Sorry to lengthen this already long thread, and no offense to those missing the cocoa api : i understand even though i can't really be angry about this

Benjamin Golinvaux
www.arboretum.com




On Saturday, Jan 25, 2003, at 23:22 Europe/Paris, Robert Abernathy wrote:

Look, when Apple decided to define an API that allowed those Carbon hosts to host Carbon AU's, that was a good business decision. When Apple decided to exclude the use of other UI environments, that smells of a political decision. How hard would it have been to add a parameter to the AU that announces what type of view the AU wants? Say, Carbon, Cocoa, X11, none- I'll do my own thank you, ... Then the host can decide if it wants to include them in the list of available AU's.

The arguments that no one (nobody important) would use other formats for UI's, if their AU wouldn't work with the major hosts, are wrong. For a counter example, let's look at Logic. When I look at the contents of my copy, I see plugin synth modules that don't appear to be AU's. I'm sure that Emagic has good business/design reasons for doing this.

I don't understand why it isn't easy to see that a lot of people would choose to develop using AU's that don't work with the major (Carbon) hosts. So, I'll try a different angle. When I first looked at the docs for AU's, my immediate reaction was "I don't need a host environment anymore." AU's/CoreAudio/CoreMIDI are the host platform! This isn't just an API for putting out VST's. You've got synths, sequencers, output, mixers, ... Mix this up with a community of developers/musicians. Excellent! Now, we still do have all of that without Cocoa. Cocoa would simply provide acceleration.

I'm also confused as to why anyone is getting upset that people are telling Apple (through the CoreAudio team) what we think and want. I'm pretty sure that the reason the situation is the way it is now, is because certain developers had the opportunity to express their views on the subject. I (re)started this thread because I had a practical business decision to make. I think it makes perfect sense for me to say- and Apple to hear- what effect their decisions have on my and others' business plans. In my case, if I have to eat the cost of Carbon development, I might as well eat the costs of going completely cross-platform. When I registered my last product with Apple, they wanted to know if my product were Mac only. So, it seems they do care about this.

I'm being told that this shouldn't be Apple's problem. They don't have the resources to expend on Cocoa. It isn't their responsibility. Well if it isn't theirs, then it must be mine. The only problem there is that I can't even work on it. So, open the code- put it in Darwin. Just the AU parts, that's enough. The world could use a good open plugin standard.

Rob
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