• Open Menu Close Menu
  • Apple
  • Shopping Bag
  • Apple
  • Mac
  • iPad
  • iPhone
  • Watch
  • TV
  • Music
  • Support
  • Search apple.com
  • Shopping Bag

Lists

Open Menu Close Menu
  • Terms and Conditions
  • Lists hosted on this site
  • Email the Postmaster
  • Tips for posting to public mailing lists
Re: high quality audio output
[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: high quality audio output


  • Subject: Re: high quality audio output
  • From: "Cor Jansen" <email@hidden>
  • Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 14:32:28 +0100

Hello again

My DAC does reclocking, so I hope the clock will not be the main reason for the difference.

It would be great to have a Toslink analyzer like Brian Willoughby is suggesting, but quit a bit of work.
I was thinking of an output device for the macMini that is not sending the samples to the SPDIF port, but to
a file. Or better, to both the file and port. Then I could check the file data agains the original wav file.


Can this be done? Or does it exists already? I do not know enough about the Apple audio architecture (yet).

Using the optical input may be the easiest way to go. I agree it is a little dangerous to use the macMini to test itselfs.
But when the resulting file equals the original file, I think it is must mean that the data on the optical wires is the same too.
Or not?


And Brian:
About the difference in AES/EBU versus S/P-DIF differences where you are talking about, I'm a little
confused. Isn't S/P-DIF (almost) the same as AES/EBU?
Or do you mean copper when saying AES/EBU and optical when saying S/P-DIF?
I know that for the serial protocol the clock is recoverred by checking one particular signal edge in the protocol.
Depending on the bandwith of the connection and medium, jitter will be added because of the inter-symbol interferention.
For optical (lower bandwith) this will be worse. Maybe this can explain the difference in your case?


Regards, Cor


[ Somehow when I play music using my miniMac and iTunes, it does not sound the
[ same as when playing from my CD player.
[ Almost the same, but not exact the same.
[ In both cases I use an optical connection to the DAC and amplifier.


There is a very good reason why a DAC+amplifier could sound different when fed
exactly the same data from two difference source devices: The accuracy of the
clock on the S/P-DIF output can really make a difference.


I really hope the Mac mini sounds more correct.  However, beware that
sometimes the human ear favors slight distortion and may prefer the less
accurate digital source.  i.e. Don't always trust your ears, unless you've
trained them to distinguish different kinds of distortion.


[ So I was thinking I need to write my own audio unit.
[
[ How can I be sure the output is exactly the same? Is there a tool that will
[ dump audio samples to a file?


I still doubt you need to write an AudioUnit. However, you may need to write
some software before you're done.


If you are serious about this, then you should obtain some kind of digital
optical recording device that is bit accurate. You might be able to use the
Mac mini digital input, but I guess there might be some concern about using the
Mac mini to test itself. On a budget, I don't see any reason why that
wouldn't work, though. It will be difficult to compare the data between your
CD player and iTunes, simply because you won't be able to line up the
recordings very easily, especially not the CD player which has no external
sync. You could author a CD with a click followed by some quality music, and
then line up the click from each recording. You may need to write software to
compare the two recordings, although I have used Logic Pro to do this by using
the "invert" plugin that ships with Logic Pro and mixing both stereo recordings
at equal levels. They should completely cancel out if you've lined them up
precisely, and a good meter will tell you if there is any signal. Try this out
with the same recording on two tracks to make sure you understand what happens
when they do match, and then try it with your test recordings.


In my personal experience, feeding digital inputs from FireWire devices via
AES/EBU sounds much better than from USB devices via S/P-DIF. But that's just
with the specific brands of audio interfaces that I have in my test lab (2
different FW, 5 USB). It may or may not be directly related to the bus
technology. It's all about the quality of the clock signal. Of course, I have
different cables on each, and the input switching network on my DAC might not
treat AES/EBU inputs exactly the same as TOSLINK. However, the sound is
clearly different, even when playing from the same computer and switching the
default output device between FW and USB.


P.S. Now you've got me curious. I just might set up a test to compare
FireWire to USB with both going over S/P-DIF, just to eliminate the AES/EBU
variable. That's one combo I haven't tried, simply because the FireWire device
is question is rather new. It will be interesting to see if there is as much
of a difference.


Brian Willoughby
Sound Consulting



_______________________________________________
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Coreaudio-api mailing list      (email@hidden)
Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
This email sent to email@hidden


  • Follow-Ups:
    • Re: high quality audio output
      • From: Brian Willoughby <email@hidden>
References: 
 >high quality audio output (From: "Cor Jansen" <email@hidden>)
 >Re: high quality audio output (From: Olivier Tristan <email@hidden>)
 >Re: high quality audio output (From: Stephen Davis <email@hidden>)
 >Re: high quality audio output (From: "Cor Jansen" <email@hidden>)
 >Re: high quality audio output (From: Brian Willoughby <email@hidden>)

  • Prev by Date: sending PCM data
  • Next by Date: Re: high quality audio output
  • Previous by thread: Re: high quality audio output
  • Next by thread: Re: high quality audio output
  • Index(es):
    • Date
    • Thread