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Re: Mac compatible 5.1 audio sound cards
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Re: Mac compatible 5.1 audio sound cards


  • Subject: Re: Mac compatible 5.1 audio sound cards
  • From: Cyril Blanc <email@hidden>
  • Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 11:10:26 +0200

Hi Rick

There are FW800 audio interfaces available !

Your UAD problem is another problem  !

PCI E bus is much faster that a FW400 bus !

If you go to Logic forum A lot of users are having clicks and pops with there FW audio

One thing with computer, you must never put your eggs in the same basket, it is better to balance the load across the different bus

Best

Cyril
On Aug 1, 2008, at 8:06 AM, Richard Burnett wrote:

I must respectively disagree with you on the fact of needing to upgrade for audio to any faster firewire standard. For the simple fact that no one is pushing FW800 today as a needed audio interface. The bandwidth is overkill, not to mention that the limitations come down to much more complicated interactions in your system when your interface speeds are competing always with other interfaces with your computer system. Bus contention is a serious issue, and PCI cards are NOT immune to this, at all.

The fact of the matter is that when recording audio, having tons of bandwidth is NOT going to help if you still have to wait for the events to occur in real time. You're still waiting for the audio to actually be recorded. While yes you could say that when you do pass that data, you can do it much faster, I can tell you from my own personal experience that other limiting factors in the system far bring it to a crawl before my audio interface EVER does.

For instance, I use 2 UAD cards that provide DSP for my DAW. Trying to run at anything less than 1024 buffer sizes and the communication between the software and the PCI bus begins to bring ANY DAW I use to its knees.

Also, with FW I get the added benefit of using my interfaces with my MacBookPro if I'd like with no issues at all.

Not that I think there is anything wrong with the PCI cards, as I debated to if I wanted to go down that path when I had the opportunity to switch as I was going to go to the HD196 devices. I am glad that I didn't. One firewire bus can handle 3 896HDs which would give me 54 inputs if I needed and that is good enough for me :) I've never tried to push 2 firewire busses worth of audio but if someone wanted to send me interfaces, I'd certainly try it! :P

My two octaves anyways :)

Rick

PS I am getting ready to put together a 5.1 system with my 896HDs using the Dangerous Music system for controlling bass management for a film I am about to score/master. For now I've been running just stereo out of one of the 896HDs into a PreSonus Central Station into ADAM A7s.

One word of advice I'd like to give about interfaces is that not all applications can handle your main stereo left right pair not being the first two outputs of your sound device. I had this problem for both recording and playback in many programs. So be leary of this in your setup. Also, if you use aggregate devices, it can become even worse if your main outs become outputs 21-22 or so on when certain applications may support 10 outputs and that is it, and your interfaces are set up so that your outputs is not in that range.





On Thursday, July 31, 2008, at 10:54PM, "Cyril Blanc" <email@hidden > wrote:
Hi Rick

In a way you are right in another way you are wrong, if you buy a FW
audio today you interface will not benefit of   FW1600 nor FW3200
(this is coming very very soon)
With PCI, you pay 300 $, but you benefit of the faster bus and of
improvements on the card.
The number of tracks will depends of the sample rate you will use.
44 ? 96 ? 192 khz ?
Best

Cyril

On Jul 31, 2008, at 7:03 PM, Richard Burnett wrote:

Regarding FW, I've actually done some research with people working
with the MOTU FW versus PCI cards and I find the performance from
what I have gathered from the MOTU user base online is that the
performance is similar.  I use 2 MOTU 896HDs giving me 36 inputs and
have absolutely no problem on a Mac Pro 4x2.6Ghz system.

I recommend Firewire to everyone who needs less or equal to 36 ins/
outs because you are not tied to a PCI card incase the bus
technology changes and the performance of the Firewire works great.
I also use 4 external drives and no extra FireWire card.  In Logic8
and DP6 I can consistently work on projects using multiple live
inputs (I've tested all 36 in at once) with 40+ audio and instrument
tracks in addition and the system has worked wonderfully.

I do time everything in my studio with a Lucid GenX6 and get no pops
or clicks ever.

At a time, I have used MOTU's PCI interface, as I have owned a few
of them.  Word of warning, NEVER accidentally pop out the connection
to it from the PCI card or you will hear a scream from your speakers
like no other!

:)

And the cost to upgrade a registered interface right now is $300 for
the new card, that's something you can avoid with FW.

Rick Burnett
Asylum Studio Productions




On Thursday, July 31, 2008, at 12:42PM, "Cyril Blanc" <email@hidden
wrote:
Hello Mike,

Motu PCI card is one format. You buy either a PCI 424 a PCI 424 X or
a PCI 424 E


The Motu solution is great as if the PCI bus changes, you replace for
a reasonable price only the card, not the input/output units, you
have
a great choice of input/output units and they are compatible since
Motu started this line 10 years ago


I have moved from PCI to PCI X to PCI E ;)

Using a USB audio is ok if you dont have too much tracks, same as FW
audio


If you use a FW audio and a FW disk it is better to have two FW bus
(you can have clicks and pops if you dont)


If you have PCI card, it's the best solution as you can expand your
system, my Motu system has started with one Motu 2048 MK II and now
has 84 ins/ 48 outs (see more details after)

you can find second hand nits for reasonable price ;)

On Jul 31, 2008, at 5:35 PM, Mike Stoddard wrote:

Bob, if you consider a PCI-buss card solution, be
very careful about buss compatibility. Apple's PCI
designs evolved through many hybrid versions of the
PCI standard, starting with old 5-volt V.2.0 in G4's,
then evolving to 3-volt PCI-X, and then on to PCI-E.
Many card manufacturers (M-Audio being one) failed
to design correctly for this evolution, and their
cards will work in some Macs and not others. MOTU
by comparison seems to have done the right things,
and their PCI card (I think they have only one)
adapts itself to all the various voltages, etc.,
and works across all PCI and PCI-X busses. Sadly,
my G5 PM is one of the weird Macs that most PCI
cards will not work in.

My solution was to stick with FireWire interfaces.

Good luck,
-Mike Stoddard



Bob Lang wrote:
Hi everyone
Sorry if this question is a bit off-topic but I'm sure that the
people here will know the answer.
I'm considering a project which will require a Mac compatible 5.1
sound card for output. Currently I own a Griffin FireWave but I'm
sad to say that this great piece of kit is being discontinued.
I've done some web searching and found that there are a number of
5.1 sound cards available: internal cards using PCI, and external
interfaces mainly using USB but some with FireWire, plus a
collection of higher spec interfaces offering 8, 10 or more
channels. Some of these cards claim to be OS X compatible, but
most are silent on this issue; however, in my searching I've found
some comments stating that you can plug any USB 5.1 sound card into
a Mac and it work (despite the manufacturer's silence) whilst other
comments complain that some of these cards some don't work
correctly despite appearing as 5.1 devices in Audio/Midi Setup
(e.g. Creative SB XFi Surround 5.1 is allegedly one such culprit).
I'm completely confused. What is the state of play with Macs and
the range of surround cards etc now on the market? Can I plug in
any PCI and expect the Mac to use it? Likewise for any USB or
FireWire device? Clearly there's no point embarking on a project
which inherently requires a 5.1 card/interface if there are no
longer any usable purchase options for prospective users! Can
anyone shed any light on this confused situation?
Perhaps I should mention that my project is output only - there's
no sound capture required.
Many thanks in advance.
Bob
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Best

Cyril

IChat/AIM : cyrillindablanc
Skype : cyrillinda
MSN : email@hidden


------------------------------------------------------- Audio and Video Configuration :

Macpro 8 core 3 ghz 13 GB, 2 X 1Tb + 74 WD Raptor
Raid 0 for the libraries made with Rocket Raid and 6 x 36 gb raptor
10 000 rmp
+ 160+250 GB + FW 800 Lacie + 2x22" Iiyama


Motu system including : PCI 424 E + 24i + 2408 MKII + 1296  + 2408
MKIII (84 ins 40 outs)
Logic Control + 4 Logic Control XT
Midi interfaces : Stealth + OPCODE STUDIO 4 + MOTU MTP I ; USB
EMAGICAMT 8

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Orchestra, Symphonic Choir
Final Cut Pro, Vienna Appassionata string
Sony Digital Camera


My Mail is filtered by Personal Antispam.

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