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Re: Why no work on rsync?
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Re: Why no work on rsync?


  • Subject: Re: Why no work on rsync?
  • From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <email@hidden>
  • Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 15:13:59 -0800


On Mar 4, 2006, at 2:37 PM, Boyd Waters wrote:

What? I find it difficult to believe that some research into EA preservation did not yield prior work. But that would be heavily dependent upon the timing, as this seems to be an active area of research. Alas.

Well, the timing would have been very early Tiger, so I'm not saying our knowledge is entirely up to date here. It's always worth another look, but at the time, there wasn't much (well, ANYTHING) in the CLI space.


ReiserFS version 4 has extensive support for per-file metadata. They still argue about the best way to represent such metadata, and the pseudo-subdir approach that I've seen some POSIX tools take with Macintosh metadata (e.g. filename/.resourcefork) is quite similar.

Or ._filename, in Tiger's case, but yeah - you've always got the non- EA-aware filesystem interop case to deal with. Dealing with serialization/deserialization with different source/destination filesystems can be amusing too.


Hmm. Actually you are correct: no standard tools support these various approaches. Filesystem architects have long grappled with this stuff, but no one has made user-space work well.

And, just for the record, I'm not arguing that we did either. When I said we were at the "end of the spear" before (a phrase that Rob took some objection to), I wasn't trying to suggest that we had absolutely solved everything the right way - a lot of our command-line strategy was driven more by expediency ("Oh crap, we have EAs in HFS now - we need to quickly figure out how to preserve them in some number of common cases").


Just to lay the problem out for everyone else, you have to at least assume the following when analyzing approaches in this space:

1. That the source and the target for any operation may or may not support EAs, yet heterogeneous operations can't lose data.

2. That creating, editing, renaming, copying and deleting files all need to be able to keep data and metadata together, fully cognizant of the limitations posed by item #1.

For us, that meant making sure that all the basic file primitives (cp, rm, mv, etc) did the right thing for a file / file pair (again, see #1) as an obvious first step, but transport requirements also meant modifying rsync, scp, tar, pax, cpio, etc so that all of this would also work over the network or in archival scenarios. Then we remembered that editors like vim and emacs did temporary file gymnastics in order to accomplish edits on files and that merely editing a file wouldn't be expected by most people to result in a loss of all its EA information, so those utilities had to be taught to transfer the EAs over and that's just two utilities which do that - there are more, including 3rd party editing tools, which are quite likely going to cause EA data loss until they start employing the same strategies.

It's all just a bit messy, which is probably why nobody's even wanted to touch user space. They just do the filesystem support, declare victory and run away. :-)

- Jordan

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  • Follow-Ups:
    • Re: Why no work on rsync?
      • From: Markus Hitter <email@hidden>
    • Re: Why no work on rsync?
      • From: "Peter O'Gorman" <email@hidden>
    • Re: Why no work on rsync?
      • From: John Siracusa <email@hidden>
References: 
 >Re: Why no work on rsync? (From: email@hidden (Peter Seebach))
 >Re: Why no work on rsync? (From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Why no work on rsync? (From: Rob Braun <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Why no work on rsync? (From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <email@hidden>)
 >Re: Why no work on rsync? (From: Boyd Waters <email@hidden>)

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