On Mar 16, 2007, at 5:47 AM, Andreas Fink wrote:
On 16.03.2007, at 11:34, Michael Smith wrote:
Really wish you-all would make the whole developer pkgs ready
before releasing a massive update like 10.4.9 is.
You would really hold up a release like this until the open-source bits were ready? Somehow, I don't think you quite comprehend the reality of the situation.
Yes but why not releasing the source to the people who just received the released binary? Thats what usual open source licenses ask you to do.
I think you are perhaps confused here.
The source won't change after the binary is released that so it should be on the server right away.
You are making the assumption that:
a) the source as released is necessarily exactly the source that was used to build the product
b) the source can be packaged immediately for distribution in the format that it was in when the product was built
Neither of these are true. In addition, you truly have no idea of the scope of the work involved to identify, scrub, validate and package the number of source code projects involved in a Darwin source release. On top of that, Kevin (the chap who does all of this work, and whose long suffering you are at least partially responsible for) has a team to manage and real deliverables related to shipping the product that consumers actually want and pay for.
Since he has an open spot for an engineer to work on this packaging process, perhaps you'd front up and take the job?
I have this problem with 10.5. Our driver doesn't run under 10.5 anymore. But because the source is not available yet, I can't even prepare for 10.5 to fix the issue. So we can start fixing only after 10.5 is out and only a few month later (if we are lucky) the source of it will be made available while all the customers will rush and go and buy 10.5 and install it and then realize it failed where its a pain to move back.
Nonsense. Apple has been preparing third party vendors for Leopard for a long time; there have been many 10.5 seeds, and DTS are more than happy to support ADC members looking to get their products ready in time.
Availability of the Darwin source base is not an absolute gating factor; if you care about being ready for Leopard as a developer, there are avenues open to you.
Give me a good reason why the source should not be released at the day of the binary is released.
Because it is *not ready* to be released.
I fully expect that by "good reason", you mean "reason that you feel is acceptable". Bear in mind that it is Apple that is making these releases, and so the applicable definition of good is "reasons that prevent it being done". I've given you two that actually apply; whether you feel they are "good" or not.
On 16 Mar 2007, at 10:34, Michael Smith wrote:
You would really hold up a release like this until the open-source bits were ready? Somehow, I don't think you quite comprehend the reality of the situation.
The binaries are released. If the sources aren't ready, how did they build the binaries?
You're making the same mistakes Andreas is; namely that the source as released is necessarily identical to the source used to build the binaries, *and* that all of the incidental work (legal, logistical, etc.) is being done before the release is cut.
I'll throw out the same challenge I did to Andreas to anyone else that feels like griping: if you feel so very strongly that the Darwin source releases should be out sooner, talk to Kevin about a job. I believe that this is the open req:
But you should verify; his contact details are plastered all over these lists, and if you're a serious follower of the Darwin source releases you know who I'm talking about.
p.s. Rob B., stop sniggering.